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Old 12-12-2012, 02:12 PM   #71
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I think people take it to seriously, most people on here are friendly and offer genuine advice from research or experience but there will always be people you would rather not deal with on the Internet, that's just the way it is and also you are asking for ADVICE and not RULES! Even the most experienced aquarist may have different experiences and outcomes as to what does and doesn't work. All fish are different the same way people are so if you really care about fish just research for your self and ask for others experiences and/or advice and then go with what you feel but be responsible and have a plan if things don't work out. that is how I use the site but its just my opinion.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:12 PM   #72
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While it is important to ask for more information when it is needed, there are occasions in which a single factor can override all others. Lets blow this up with an extreme example. Lets say someone was asking what to feed his new octopus in a 10 gallon nano reef.
We *could* simply tell him what the octopus eats, but we are far more likely to tell him that octopus should never ever be in that tank, and list reasons why.
Obviously this is blown to extremes to demonstrate a point.
In that situation, the multitude of responses would very likely feel like a personal attack to the poster. Right or wrong, that's how it would be perceived.
So, to use the original example in this thread, it does not matter what temperature, filtration, and feeding are used if the tank itself is of an inadequate size. We SHOULD endeavor to convey this in a polite and gentle manner, but it won't always feel that way no matter what the intentions.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:12 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by jlk View Post

The OP specifically used the goldfish response as her basis for her original 'vent' post.
Yeah, but in that guppy thread a whole slew of ppl got on the goldfish in the tank... Repeating each other and not saying much about the guppy at all...before the op even responded to the first one. :I love jlk:
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:35 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Shane87 View Post
I think people take it to seriously, most people on here are friendly and offer genuine advice from research or experience but there will always be people you would rather not deal with on the Internet, that's just the way it is and also you are asking for ADVICE and not RULES! Even the most experienced aquarist may have different experiences and outcomes as to what does and doesn't work. All fish are different the same way people are so if you really care about fish just research for your self and ask for others experiences and/or advice and then go with what you feel but be responsible and have a plan if things don't work out. that is how I use the site but its just my opinion.
I usually research, then come here for additional info and people's experiences. My frustration comes when people spend more time analysing my tank instead of answering my question. As happened on the guppy post being referred to. I just wanted to know if my guppy could kill my goldy and if I should get him out. This wasn't the first time this had happened so I finally decided to say something.

This site is pretty conservative, which is in the best interest of the fish. I researched the net and learned a fantail is okay in a 20 for a while. I go to my local LFS and they at one point told me a fantail would by okay in a 15. Based on my research and info here I knew that was not something I wanted to do because I knew I was pushing it even doing the 20. Thus the other accomodations that I am making with my tank.

I know most stuff on here is opinion based, but it comes from people that have way more experience than me, so I listen. But I also do my own research to go with it. And talk to my LFS for whatever they might add (even their most conservative employee is way more liberal than anyone here, I think).

This topic has gotten way more attention than I was expecting. I have another thread going now where my questions are being patiently answered and I am moving forward.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #75
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Everyone has obviously strayed away from the original discussion. From what I've read I've determined that most of the people on this forum speak from opinion/personal experience. Others like to use scientific data to help answer questions. The main point is this: everyone on here does their best to help the people who have questions. Yes, there are some instances where people act in a manner which is not necessary but overall it does not happen frequently.

People have different opinions, that part is obvious. Does anyone really expect for everybody to agree with one another? That's crazy. If someone offers advice to a person asking a question and someone does not agree with it it is perfectly fine to express your own opinion but do it in a way that isn't rude or pull a "holier-than-thou" act. Who knows you might actually teach someone besides the OP.

On the flip side, people who get offended by a post because they think they are being attacked, don't feel that way it probably isn't the case. Posters offering insight should not have to put a smiley face or anything of the sort after every sentence just so it comes off as "friendly".

Well this is just my two cents.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #76
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Lol, wow, I think there's a troll around here somewhere- oh, and I agree tattooed and dye injected fish are evil and wrong!

Here troll! Come out come out wherever you are! Pm if you're a troll so I can subscribe, this is way more fun than playing kaw while waiting for my kids to get out of school.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:23 PM   #77
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Ok, on the thread we are presently posting commentary upon, I stated that ANY species of fish that is 12in long should not be in a 20g. I ALSO stated that this is MY opinion and people will make their own decisions regardless. If you would like for me to to go back and edit every single post on I have ever written on this forum, I am afraid you are out of luck.

I enjoy helping people on this forum and I do try to stick to topics that I am familiar with- cycling and goldfish. Do I post scientific data to back up every opinion I have? No, and neither do the majority of the people on this forum. As its already been stated, the majority of the information on this forum is simply opinion and not scientific data. Nor do I hound people about their tank situations- I make suggestions. I certainly did not attack or 'pummel' the OP of this thread either and I am not sure how anyone could have construed my response in another manner. If anyone has additional input to offer on her situation beyond what I suggested, please feel free to do so.

That said, I generally care about fish and love goldies and would hope that everyone would desire whats best for their fish as well. I try to be as tactful as possible in my responses- if someone does not like them, they can choose to ignore them rather than complain about them. I do not help on this forum for my benefit or well-being, I do so because I am genuinely trying to help and I do so of my own free time and free will. I do not appreciate being singled out and attacked when it seems like I am only one of the few people that even offers any goldie advice on this forum.
You give great advice and when I see you in a thread I sometimes don't even get all the way through it because I know you've covered all of the bases. Personally I consider you a resident expert and am glad you contribute here.

I think the point mfd was making is that most of us have been recommending a 20g-ish minimum for fancy goldfish on the regular here, but now that it's a point of contention I'm getting dogpiled by defending it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jon, I could be talking out of school.

I wasn't necessarily expecting anyone to bust out a bunch of science papers to try to determine that fancy goldfish would be harmed in a 20g tank, but I just wanted a little more than a 'just because' or 'well my friends friend had a fish that', especially considering that the bandwagon in this thread is going against the status quo of what is usually recommended on the forum to begin with.
I'm not a goldfish expert by any means and tend to defer to those who have more of a passion or time in study with this species, just thought it was pertinent to make example of one of the disconnects that I think was brought up in this rant.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:25 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abrinn23 View Post
Everyone has obviously strayed away from the original discussion. From what I've read I've determined that most of the people on this forum speak from opinion/personal experience. Others like to use scientific data to help answer questions. The main point is this: everyone on here does their best to help the people who have questions. Yes, there are some instances where people act in a manner which is not necessary but overall it does not happen frequently.

People have different opinions, that part is obvious. Does anyone really expect for everybody to agree with one another? That's crazy. If someone offers advice to a person asking a question and someone does not agree with it it is perfectly fine to express your own opinion but do it in a way that isn't rude or pull a "holier-than-thou" act. Who knows you might actually teach someone besides the OP.

On the flip side, people who get offended by a post because they think they are being attacked, don't feel that way it probably isn't the case. Posters offering insight should not have to put a smiley face or anything of the sort after every sentence just so it comes off as "friendly".

Well this is just my two cents.
I agree, advice givers should always consider tact before hitting the submit button, and advice takers should not assume people are attacking them just because they are informing them of how inappropriate their stock or setup is.

Sugar coating is unnecessary.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:34 PM   #79
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All I know about goldfish is I raised them from the time they were fry until the time they outgrew a 29g and were ready for placement in my moms ponds, which are very large. I also have had an opportunity to see an aquaponic koi farm built from a normal koi pond, but I'm the type that would rather tell you a story of my own personal experiences or keep my mouth shut. Shooting from the hip never helps anyone.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:47 PM   #80
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Ok, on the thread we are presently posting commentary upon, I stated that ANY species of fish that is 12in long should not be in a 20g. I ALSO stated that this is MY opinion and people will make their own decisions regardless. If you would like for me to to go back and edit every single post on I have ever written on this forum, I am afraid you are out of luck.

I enjoy helping people on this forum and I do try to stick to topics that I am familiar with- cycling and goldfish. Do I post scientific data to back up every opinion I have? No, and neither do the majority of the people on this forum. As its already been stated, the majority of the information on this forum is simply opinion and not scientific data. Nor do I hound people about their tank situations- I make suggestions. I certainly did not attack or 'pummel' the OP of this thread either and I am not sure how anyone could have construed my response in another manner. If anyone has additional input to offer on her situation beyond what I suggested, please feel free to do so.

That said, I generally care about fish and love goldies and would hope that everyone would desire whats best for their fish as well. I try to be as tactful as possible in my responses- if someone does not like them, they can choose to ignore them rather than complain about them. I do not help on this forum for my benefit or well-being, I do so because I am genuinely trying to help and I do so of my own free time and free will. I do not appreciate being singled out and attacked when it seems like I am only one of the few people that even offers any goldie advice on this forum.

JLK, I don't need you to cite case studies when you are advising me on my lot! I have a living proof (happily swimming in her tank!) that your methods work. You have some devoted fans here in London, that's for sure!
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