10 Gallon German Blue Ram Setup: Looking for Advice/Opinions

[Braden8558]

Hello,

I am looking at starting up a 10 gallon planted tank for a pair of german blue rams. I have kept a pair in a 10 gallon before and they spawned and I had free swimming fry. The fry eventually passed away, and so did the parents, however I loved their personality and colors and would like to keep them again. Here is a video of the free swimming fry in the 10 gallon with the parents....

So I'm trying to figure out what I should do for my setup; lighting, filtration, substrate,ect. I plan on using an aquaclear20 as I like the flow, as well as the ability to change the media easily.

The 10 gallon tank I used for the rams was planted however it was rather lowtech and was lit by two 10 watt Compact Florescent bulbs, with no co2 or fertilizers added. I had flourite black sand which is sitting in the tank right now, but I'm not sure what I want to use this time. The tank still has water in it, but the filter and heater is shut off and the male ram disappeared and after the female passed away, I shut it down but never took the tank down entirely.

I would like to make this tank medium tech and possibly high tech but I don't want to be spending a fortune either. I'm a teenager and with a reef tank, I am already spending a lot! I also would like to implement some sort of co2 system, however I know that co2 can cause pH swings and I don't want to kill any fry or prevent the parents from spawning.

For lighting I was planning to go with leds but I was wondering if there is a good relatively cheap led system for a 10 gallon planted tank out there? I remember I looked before and couldn't find anything that good.

Also I was wondering what I would want for a fry tank. I know that ram fry usually shouldn't be raised with the parents, but would a 5 or 10 gallon suffice? I don't have much room, but I would like to raise some of the fry if possible. If a 5 or 10 gallon is to small then I may just keep them for their colors and personality and if they breed then just leave the babies in with them and see what happens and if anybody survives. My plan was to set up a 5 or 10 gallon fry tank with a sponge filter, a heater, some java moss and possibly a HOB with a sponge on the intake to prevent the fry from getting sucked up, and just raise them in there. I figure it will make me a little money and hopefully be something interesting and rewarding. I would be alright with doing a water change every week but if I would have to do a water change every day or two in the fry tank, it might get a little bit much. I think that if a 5 or 10 gallon is to small to raise all the fry in then I might take half of their fry and raise them in the fry tank and then leave the others in the main tank with the parents to see if they will raise them in the tank and whether or not they will survive. I know that some ram parents are good, and others are not, so we will see.

I also recall that the rams dug mini pits after the babies were hatched or right before where they kept them and therefore I think that sand is probably the best option. Should I stick with the flourite black sand. Should I get some new stuff, or is my old sand sitting in the 10 gallon still good and nutrient rich?

If you can't tell this tank is still in the making and it's not set in stone I just want some more info before I try it again and make the commitment towards these fish...

Thanks for the help,

Braden

 

[GouramiLover]

10 is too small for a pair. You need at least a 20, a 20 long is better. They really need the "floor" space as they are lower level swimmers.

 

[Braden8558]

I have done it before so I believe it is fine. Other people have said the same thing but I believe they are okay. As long as there isn't to much aggression and water changes are done, I don't see the problem. I know people might say that there is not enough space but I believe that there is and I have spawned them in a 10 gallon. I figure that if they were not happy and in a suitable environment, then they would not have spawned in less than a week after adding the male into the females tank. Thanks for the concern, but I think it is doable and would not like concerns that it is to small, just suggestions on the setup.

Thanks, Braden

 

[bcarl_10gal]

If fish live in too small of a tank they will be fine for awhile but as they try to grow and the tank is too small there body will release an enzyme that will slowly kill them. While you think it may have been fine for a months this will eventually happen. For example try to keep goldfish in a 5 gallon tank. It will be fine for awhile but eventually they will out grow it the enzyme will begin to be released and they will die. Another thing to consider with GBRs is if they are injected with hormones. The ones that are tend to be more sensitive and die faster. Provide them with same caves and plants to hide in and see what happens.

 

[Braden8558]

Hello and thanks for the reply. Where did you obtain this information from. Do you have a source you could back this up for me? I haven't heard this theory/information about enzymes?

Thanks, Braden

 

[bribo12]

Are you just doing a pair of rams? I think a 10 would be fine for a breeding pair with nothing else

 

[Braden8558]

Are you just doing a pair of rams? I think a 10 would be fine for a breeding pair with nothing else

Thanks for the reply. Yes it would just be a pair and perhaps some of their fry depending on whether the parents allow them to coexist or not. I did it before but not for that long of a time. My male randomly disappeared on me and I was never able to locate him. This time I plan to get on a better feeding schedule and water change schedule as well as separate the fry or some of the fry to a separate 5 or 10 gallon tank.

 

[bcarl_10gal]

Here is a good read, like i said you can get away with it for awhile but they will eventually die. http://injaf.org/articles-guides/do-fish-grow-to-the-size-of-their-tank/

 

[bribo12]

Rams get 3-3 1/2 inches. I don't see the issue with a single pair in a 10 to be bred. Ppl breed Angels in 20 gallon tanks with great success and angels get huge. Yes gbr are sensitive and I believe the op knows this. I think it's fine, just get the rams from a breeder or a reputable source that is not getting hormone injected ones

 

[Braden8558]

Here is a good read, like i said you can get away with it for awhile but they will eventually die. Do fish grow to the size of their tank? | INJAFINJAF

I started reading that article earlier after hearing what you said. According to the article the word enzyme is only used twice in the "Thiaminase" section which does not prove your point about the enzymes being secreted and killing the fish.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

+1

Add me to the pair of GBRs are too much for a 10g camp. Go planted, but just get some tetras or something. Or try something different like Scarlet Badis or a pair of Peacock Gudgeon.. these can easily breed in a 10. But if you're determined to breed GBR's... honestly, why can't you get a larger tank? It can't be that much of a burden on your wallet? Wait for the $1 per gallon sale at petco or something. Or search for a 2nd hand tank on craigslist.

For LED's .. I'd go Current-USA satellite LED+ or Finnex Planted+... anything cheaper I just don't trust.

 

[Braden8558]

The main problem is space not money. I'm a teenager and live with my parents so I don't have room for everything. I tried to get a 20 tall there and while it does fit, it is rather tight and my parents thought it was to large for the area and I had to bring it back. I might not do the pair but I have done one before and it worked out well. I think I have a spot for a 25 gallon or 29 gallon that I could use instead for the pair. That might work out better....

 

[bcarl_10gal]

+ 1 on the light recommendations

 

[Plantaholic]

Why did your 1st pair die?

 

[Brookster123]

Why did your 1st pair die?

Clairvoyance aside.... I'm thinking crappy gbr stock in less than perfect conditions??? Hmmmmmm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[TrueEnvy]

Jest make sure Lvl of everything is appropriate for the rams and they would probly do fine

 

[Mebbid]

I started reading that article earlier after hearing what you said. According to the article the word enzyme is only used twice in the "Thiaminase" section which does not prove your point about the enzymes being secreted and killing the fish.

It's hormones that are secreted rather than enzymes. The hormones that fish excrete stunt their growth which is something I've personally seen when breeding guppies. It's long winded so I won't bother with the details unless you really want them but it's a real thing. The side effect of stunting is that their organs continue to grow while their body doesn't creating malformations and eventually destroying organs killing the fish.

Following that, almost any experienced aquarist will tell you that GBR don't belong in a 10g tank for a few reasons. First they need the floor space for room to feel comfortable and not cramped. Second parameters swing WAY faster in a smaller tank which I am imagining you ran into with your last pair and all their fry dying. Contrary to what people think, breeding is second nature to pretty much every living thing. As long as fish are fed properly and are in appropriate water parameters they will breed without problems and the GBR are part of that group. They aren't a difficult fish to breed at all. I would suggest getting fish that are more appropriate to your tank and waiting to get some GBRs.

Since you seem dead set on keeping them anyways, I would say you will need to do bi weekly water testing with water changes to keep your nitrates below 20ppm, preferably below 10ppm. You can use whatever substrate you like but any root feeding plant like crypts need root tabs while plants like java fern and anubias need to be tied to decorations rather than planted.

 

[Plantaholic]

"Second parameters swing WAY faster in a smaller tank which I am imagining you ran into with your last pair and all their fry dying." Quoting Mebbid here via copy paste.
Winner winner, chicken dinner!

 

[Braden8558]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am rethinking my plan on the GBR's in the 10 gallon. We shall see...I think that the first guys died because of either not feeding them enough or because I didn't keep up with the water changes. The male just disappeared one day and I never replaced him and then eventually the female passed on.

 

[FishyBusiness]

You've been given excellent advice here and I have to agree that they shouldn't be put in a 10 gallon. Fishes growth can become stunted in too small of areas (think goldfish in a bowl or a 10 gal tank) where their body stops growing but insides do... Slow painful death. GBR's require religious aquarium maintenance. Sounds like you had slacked on that before and most likely would happen again. I just advise against it unless you get a larger tank. The bigger the tank the easier it is holds true. However a properly planted tank with some nano fish or even a betta looks fantastic. Badis are gorgeous little fish so look into those. A sparkling gourami could be housed in a 10 gallon. Finnex are nice LEDs and pretty cheap on amazon. Think like $50 for that size tank? Maybe a little more but a lot of people with planted tanks use them. Good luck!