10 gallon lighting conversions

[fish_4_all]

I can't find the link so if osmeone would give it to me I would appreciate it. I want to take my 10 gallon tanks to high light and I need to know which spiral CF to buy to get it there. I know to get the daylight bulbs, I just need to know how many watts to get to high light.

If one of the adminstrators don't mind, I think it would be useful to have it added to the lighting sticky.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

In the light section at Walmart, they do have 10W, 20W, 25W, etc. And I believe the hoods take up to 25W max. I don't think you'd want to go more than that. I currently have 2 20W screw-ins in my 10G. It's great. For my next 10G I'm thinking of getting the 25W ones. Just make sure they say 6500k or 6700k on them. Don't want the ones that are 3000k or 3200k.

Also, to give you a better idea what you are looking for, here's what they look like....

Edit:
I found this....
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=74832

 

[YuccaPatrol]

Wal-Mart also sells a CF light that fits exactly in place of the standard incandescent tube lights. You get 20 watts of compact Fluorescent lighting out of two of these $5 bulbs.

 

[fish_4_all]

Ok, I got 2 20 watt, 75 equivelant lights, just like the ones that Lone has for his no fish planted tank.

I know 150 watts sounds like a lot but with all the conversion, how much light would it actually be if I were to put them over a 1o gallon? Would it actually be extreme high light? Would I lose a lot of light and only be at 4-5 watts per gallon? Could I just put 1 bulb in for the side that is heviest planted and let the anubias be on the other side for lower light?

The important thing is the fish and I don't want to blind them or have the light way too high but I would lke for me plants to grow a little faster, if not a lot faster than the double 48" NO shop fixture is doing. I realize the 80 watts over 2 10 gallon tanks is really only giving me about 2.5-3 w/g max. So any help here would be very much appreciated.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

As for the light bulbs, it's not too much for fish. Also, due to restrike, the total output won't be as high as doing the calculations. I too would like to know what the w/g equivalent is for both the 20W CF screw-ins and the 25W CF screw-ins.

 

[Purrbox]

What you have to keep in mind is that the Incadescent Light equivalent that is marked on CF bulbs is meaningless when figuring out how much light is over a tank. Incadescents are nearly useless to plants. It's NO Flourescents that you want to compare them to, which is going to be nowhere near the 150 watts.

The 80 Watts over your two 10 gallon tanks would be 40 Watts over each tank with a poor reflector (meant to light the room not just the tank). You're 40 Watts of CF over the new 10 gallon will probably be very similar to the the other tanks after restrike is taken into consideration, but the hood probably has a better reflector which should give you slightly better growth.

 

[fish_4_all]

That helps some, I figure, by looking at the tank, it has taken my w/g to about a true 4 in terms of intensity. The actual knowing that smaller tanks lose a lot of light might be around 6w/g but that is still not considered really high for 10 gallon tanks. I know it is brighter and the true test will be how much it helps the plant growth. If it works well and I can actually see a difference, then I will be posting it because it would make 10 gallon tanks a lot more appealing in an expense aspect. Lone would have to get the credit though because he turned me on to them.

I would actually say the lighting in the tank is about 50% brighter than it was with the 48" fixture. Factors for this include concentrating the light over the tank. Actually having all the light over the tank and not blocked by other things. The reflector, very good point Purrbox, the proximity to the tanks as the lighting is now right on top of the tank instead of sitting on it up to 2 inches away. So many benefits and so many aspects that all fit together to make for much better lighting.

I guess it all boils down to observation. If it works, then we must be doing something right. Will hopefully be able to confirm Lone's observations on his with his fast growth and we may have something useful after all.

 

[Tong]

Something to keep in mind...smaller bulbs produce fewer lumens per watt. I've learned this is true for all types of lighting. Take for example your 20W CF Daylight bulbs. They only produce 1200 lumens each. This is only 60 lumens per watt versus the "normal" 79ish lumens per watt most people are used to.

To figure out your lumens we can use Wizard~Of~Oz's system.

200 = 10 Gallon Surface Area
5.63 = Magic Number Wizard~Of~Oz came up with

1200 * 2 = 2400
2400 / 200 = 12
12 / 5.63 = 2.13 WPG

Of course, this isn't a perfect science due to the previously mentioned factors and the fact that lumens aren't exactly a perfect estimate.

 

[fish_4_all]

Could be, very easily be. I have never seen high light in person so my observations are guesses. 2 w/g, is still amazing how much CO2 is needed even at lower lights. Oh well, if it grows the plants well then I will add it to Wizz's page for others to use. Maybe we need to have another section for these. All I know it is brighter than anything I have had over my tanks so it has to help.

One thing to also consider is the light is concentrated with these rather than all spread out over the tank. Does it make a difference, I don't know but is another possible factor on their usefulness.

 

[czcz]

Does the 5.63 magic number come from the lumens/sq in of 1wpg over a 55gal? Thats a pretty cool conversion.

fish_4_all, concentration of light, and more specifically an efficient reflector, is at least as important as watts in my opinion. However, even with more focused light, the effect of restrike is significant and cannot be ignored. IME the 2*13w CF from AH Supply (their reflector) is much brighter than 2*23w spiral screw-in CF (in a painted white hood). If you are using the parallel U-tube bulbs shape, it should have less loss from restrike than the spiral bulb shape.

2 w/g, is still amazing how much CO2 is needed even at lower lights.

FWIW, with inconsistent CO2 I battled BBA with the spiral screw-in CF setup described above over 8gals (24"x6.5")

I think you'll grow all the stuff in your myInfo easily with the new/current lighting, fwiw.

 

[fish_4_all]

It's worth a lot to me. I am using the parallel tubes as the others would never fit and I can't find them in daylight K. CF should be much brighter, just looking at the one that sits over my shoulder for the computer desk. Eventually I will have nothing but power CF. I also plan to modify the hoods I have to accomodate a reflector that is much better than that half dull on that is in the old hoods. That and I need to drill some holes for ventiliation.

All I know right now is this. It is brighter than the 80 watt 48" fixture, I know only half was over the tank but it is significantly brighter. Assuming 30 watts of it was actually over the tank and a really poor reflector that might have me at 2 watts per gallon, maybe a little higher. With the horseshoe shaped 20 watt bulbs, it is significantly brighter but that could mean nothing more than 3 watts per gallon. Realize that I am guessing again here.

What would all of you recommend to use as a reflector and not have to buy one? The metalic tape? A flexible metal mirror?

 

[czcz]

I've been told that painting the inside of the hood white measures very well vs reflective material.

Just out of curiosity, what did you use a reflector with the old NO bulbs? If the setup was losing most of the output from the top half of the bulb, that may explain the difference.

I think this is a similar example to what you describe:
This is 20w T12 NO with bent metal as a reflector.
This is the 2*13w AHSupply bright kit.
This is both of them together.

You may have seen these already, but here's old comparison pics of 2*23w spiral screw-in CF vs the AHSupply 2*13w CF. The light (23w spiral screw-in CF) in the bottom tank is the same in both pics.

JMO: once you're ready to maximize the reflector, better to do a proper ballast/traditional CF setup as well. I think this is like debating a powered reactor or more bottles for DIY CO2: more effective and rewarding to increase the efficiency after ensuring there is solid initial output.

Also for what its worth, I don't hunt for "daylight" spiral-screw-in CF anymore; just too lazy and I buy the cheap bulbs. Here's a 10g with a 23w spiral screw-in CF in an arm lamp. The light is very red/orange, doesn't have a K rating, and grows plants (including stems) fine. The aesthetics aren't the best though of course. I really think two such bulbs with a decent reflector will get your reds and stuff. I just don't think it will be as bright as getting something like a lower total wattage AHSupply kit.

HTH

 

[fish_4_all]

Always helps. I am just getting all of this information out of the way and trying to find out what I need to know before I spend the money on something that will really work.

I know exactly what you mean by doing it right. I just don't know if I am going to do it over a 10 gallon tank. Although $20 to convert the lighting to one that will grow anything isn't a bad thing.

The other problem, no one, and I mean no one carries power CF bulbs here. Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Ace, no one. I would have to order them every time I need them. One of the few drawbacks of a small town. Everything is an outlet store instead of the complete sotre.

If I can get plants to grow, I will be gettng the double 13 watts bright kit from AHSupply, just makes sense. Until then, if I can get plants to grow with this lighting, at least I will be ready to go higher light and be prepaired for the next step, Real Lighting. lol. The key being I have to get plants to grow at all first. I have only been algae free for 3 weeks so I am hoping I have at least learned something on here.

Keep the ideas coming czcz, you know how it should be done and I know I have a lot to learn about planted tanks and lighting. I know I need to do it right eventually, I just don't want to find out I can't grow plants and have lights to bake a small desert. That's why I don't have my 55 resealed and set back up because I am not ready for it.

My lighting is brighter than the first one but not as bright as the second one. I don't know if I want it as bright as the second one and the third one would require me to get really good sunglasses to look at the tank. I'll try to take a picture to show the lighting difference tomorrow.

 

[JRagg]

Just my $0.02 on the bright kits from AH supply. They get very very hot. I put one into my flourescent AGA hood. You MUST have a glass top. You can't get away with using the regular plastic one. It is also a huge benefit if you can manage to lift the light off of the tank about an inch.

If you can't do these two things, the thermally protected ballasts will shut down a lot. The light is great, according to the lighting calculator it puts me right at medium light. Also note that the "upgrade kit" doesn't come with a reflector and it requires a 1" drill bit (who in the world owns one of those).

**EDIT**
I guess I didn't say why you can't use the plastic hood with the conversion kit. It will get too hot and shut off your thermally protected ballasts. Mine tended to shut off after about 3-4 hours of continuous operation.

 

[Tong]

I know you can't do anything about the reflector in your current hood right now but I just wanted to reiterate something czcz said. When and if you do decide to make your own hood, white paint really is a good alternative reflector. Its dirt cheap and better than most reflectors sold...with the exception of the AH Supply one.

czcz, 5.63 is Wizard~Of~Oz's lumens per square inch needed to get 1 WPG on a 55 gallon (and any tank really)...so its just kind of working the formula backwards of sorts.

 

[fish_4_all]

Well I don't know for sure which way I will go when I get them. The reflector is nice but 3 watts is high enough. As for a drill bit, Got one and they really aren't that hard to drill with if you get the spade bits, they are not really agressive and you can drill from both sides to get a really smooth circle.

It is really hard to see the differene but tank #2 is actually quite a bit brighter.

Tank #2 is 2 20 watt horse shoe screw in lights.
Tank #1 is the double 40 watt NO lights.

Hey czcz, is that tank with the double bright kit actually that bright? It looks like it would almost blind you just to look at it.

 

[JRagg]

Well I don't know for sure which way I will go when I get them. The reflector is nice but 3 watts is high enough. As for a drill bit, Got one and they really aren't that hard to drill with if you get the spade bits, they are not really agressive and you can drill from both sides to get a really smooth circle.

You don't need a smooth circle. The 1" holes are for two little pop in vents. I ended up using a 1/16" drill bit and "cutting" a 1" hole with it. The edges are very jagged, but the pop in vent completely covers my stinginess.

 

[czcz]

fish_4_all, yeah, I think messing with the screw-in CFs first is smart; investing in a 10gal is unappealing. You're going to grow plants

If you end up getting AH Supply or another CF fixture for the 10gal though, I'd suggest the 36w CF kit. If I did it over again I would have gotten that instead of the 2*13w CF kit over my 8gal.

Hey czcz, is that tank with the double bright kit actually that bright? It looks like it would almost blind you just to look at it.

Its not that bright; the camera had auto/default everything and no flash for all the pics (I do not know how to properly set light and color balance and stuff). Its still really bright, and people have commented that tank looks nicest during its "sunset" and "sunrise" lighting periods. I've gotten used to it and appreciate the brightness and the details it brings out.

I stagger the lights to limit growth rate, btw. Just a downside of small tanks.

Tong, you should post in the Updating the WPG rule thread. Your standardizing back to wpg after lumens/sq in solves the big problem of introducing this new metric, and does so much better than "equiv T12 wpg" imo.