20 gal Planted Tank Journal (with Pics)

[PrettyFishies]

Hello All,

Jazz1180 and I just started a new 20 gallon H tank yesterday and we want to share our project and continue to get teh helpful advice. So far, we've added substrate, lighting, filter and in-line heater and are basically waiting for the tank to settle before moving on to anything else. While enormously cloudy yesterday, teh tank is amazingly clear-er now.

Here is a list of what we are using so far:

20H all glass tank with stand
Coralife FW Aqualight PC fixture - 65W, 6700K (10 hours)
Coralife 1W Lunar moon-lite
Eheim Classic Canister filter
Hydor In-line heater
Coralife digital thermometer
Laborett Master test kit
3 20lb bags of Eco-Complete
Flourish
Flourish Excel
Kent KH+
Kent GH+
Seachem Acid Buffer

Of course, we have to get other things soon... I'm ordering Iron, Phosphorous, Nitrogen and potassium supplements, planning a DIY Co2 reactor and the necc DW and rocks for asthetic appeal.

Right now, I'm testing teh water parameters and so far we have:

Temp: 76.9
PH 8
KH 2
GH 4

Haven't tested anything else yet. Plan to do a fishless cycle with liquid Ammonia - where can we find that anyway?

Well, I added some Kent KH+ to raise the KH to 4 (how long should I wait to retest) - can I also add GH+ to bring up the GH (what's optimal) and acid buffer to lower the PH? - or should I wait?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Seachem Acid Buffer

Do not use this in your tank, it converts KH into Co2 (breaks down Carbonates).. Your KH will drop and it's only @ 2. (Seachem makes the only acid buffer I'ld ever recommend aside from a water softening pillow as it treats the KH, not using a mask to "cover" the ph, Typically phosphate based.) You should be adding a small amount of CC to the filter to try and bring your KH up 1deg. (I'm talking like a 1/4tsp to start).. try not to worry about GH, KH will inheritly push it up (increase of KH of 2 increases GH by 2) I'ld trade in the KH+ and GH+ for potassium and iron.. KH can be increased with baking soda which is far more cost efficient if you don't want to use CC..

Attaching photo's in the inverse order will put them right

Edit:

Well, I added some Kent KH+ to raise the KH to 4 (how long should I wait to retest) - can I also add GH+ to bring up the GH (what's optimal) and acid buffer to lower the PH? - or should I wait?

Ok, well too late for the KH+, but don't bother with GH+.. (CaMG I believe), you will get calcium from baking soda and Mg can be added by epsom salts (Magnesium sulfate).

The PH isn't important, Adding acid buffer will drop your PH, but it will neutralize all the KH in your water making it very unstable and probably making fish float.

Some great reading on KH and GH are Here

 

[PrettyFishies]

Thanks for thr reply - so, how do I adjust my PH down to <7?

The KH+ increased the KH to 3...

Any ideas where I can get pure ammonia dn how soon I need to add it?

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

I added some to the post, (I'm thinking Baking soda is Calcium Bi-Carbonate, if that is wrong, then it won't affect your GH.)

Co2 injection is the only effective way to drop the PH. You can get into Peat filtering which introduces Tannic Acid? (Tannins) into the water which will reduce the PH, but it will also break down KH over time.. the timeframe I'm not sure of.. a DIY setup for Co2 would be your best bet, if you can keep your KH @ 3 then you are definately off to a good start. (dropping it that bit will be easier)

 

[PrettyFishies]

Thanks for the great advice. I see I need to get moving on the DIY project

Okay - so I am not using the acid buffer. I dosed with KH + and now the KH is 5dKH - I'm not touching it anymore. Next questions:

How soon do I need to add ammonia?
How soon do I need to wait to add supplements (Iron, Phos, Excel)?
Any other concerns I should be aware of at this early stafe?

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

I would add ammonia as soon as you can to get the biological filters running (this will also supply your plants with N), test your water for phos. and try to keep it below 1. Add K when your plants are in since it's another macro (4 macros, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium and Carbon as per the sticky). If you are dosing with Flourish. Then you won't need to dose with Iron, Eco is good for iron in root feeders.. perhaps down the road you'll need to. Excel you can dose with once your plants are in.

Concerns: watch for algae, different algae's mean different things. when you see one rear it's ugly head test the water for nutrients that have bottomed out and dose accordingly.

But we'll address individual concerns as they arise

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Thanks for thr reply - so, how do I adjust my PH down to <7?

The KH+ increased the KH to 3...

Any ideas where I can get pure ammonia dn how soon I need to add it?

Adding a good size piece of driftwood will help drop the ph a little. It also takes a few weeks for the ph to get to it's steady level after adding driftwood, it won't take it down immediately. Just by adding driftwood to my 26G, my ph went from 7.8 to 7.2 in a months time, and is stable now between 7.0-7.2 with my pwc's. But CO2 injection is the best way. Just remember, if you add CO2 injection, you need to play with it a little bit, as a small increase in CO2 injection will drive the ph down quite a bit.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Thanks for the great advice. I see I need to get moving on the DIY project

Okay - so I am not using the acid buffer. I dosed with KH + and now the KH is 5dKH - I'm not touching it anymore. Next questions:

How soon do I need to add ammonia?
How soon do I need to wait to add supplements (Iron, Phos, Excel)?
Any other concerns I should be aware of at this early stafe?

For adding ammonia, the sooner the better.

For suppliments, after you are planted. Here's the basics...
Nitrate to phosphate ratio should be between 10:1 and 20:1. If it's out of balance, you will bet algae, like me, lol. I finally got mine balanced, so the algae isn't bad, and slowly disappearing. After planting, you want to try to maintain your nitrate level at around 20ppm, and phosphate at 2ppm.

In a 20G, you can use the Excel in place of CO2, or in addition to CO2. I only use Excel in my 26G and the plants are growing like crazy.

 

[PrettyFishies]

Quick Update: Just added the ammonia....will test later tonigth after Poker....

Am I reading this correct that Excel can replace the need for Co2 injections? Does excel have the same affect as Co2 injections on PH?

Also - what type of DW is best in terms of leeching tannins and not floating?

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Am I reading this correct that Excel can replace the need for Co2 injections? Does excel have the same affect as Co2 injections on PH?

Sort of, Excel is a carbon suppliment, tho it can't really replace all Co2 (Val and anacharis can't survive on it). Excel has no effect on PH.

DW. For leeching tannins, definately Mylasian. It also won't float.
As for if I would do it. Not to try and manipulate the PH in any way it's far too unstable, I have 15lbs of driftwood in my tank and it doesn't alter the PH at all...

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I use Malaysian and African driftwood. Both sink immediatly, and Malaysian seems to do a little better at releasing tannins, but both work well.

 

[travis simonson]

My first suggestion would be to take a sample of your tap water and let it sit in an open bowl for 24 hours before testing the pH. This will allow for atmospheric CO2 and water-bound CO2 to equilibrate. You will get a much more accurate reading of tap water pH when testing equilibrated water.

Your KH and GH will not be affected by leaving the water sitting out, and so, should remain stable. A KH of 2 is good - a bit on the low side of desirable, but still not in need of buffering - and a GH of 4 is just fine for most plants. Do the 24 hour test and report the results back to us; I'm interested to see how they turn out

 

[PrettyFishies]

Good Morning All....

Well, after adding the ammonia last night, I tested the water and here are the latest parameters:

Temp 76.8
KH 4
PH 8
Ammonia 3ppm

I ordered a test kit for phosphates and nitrogen and phosphorous supplements. Today I will be buyng live bacteria to jump start the cycle. My main concern is the PH right now. Will I have to wait for the Co2 system to take effect before adding any plants?

 

[jazz1180]

Looking good )

 

[PrettyFishies]

Last night we bought 2 pieces of DW and 3 rocks. Nice pieces - if we do say so ourselves.

Today, I tested several parameters after adding the live bacteria and some GH+:

Temp 77.4
PH 8
KH 4
GH 5
Ammonia 3ppm

My main concern at this point is still the PH. Will I need to wait until the CO2 is setup before I can add plants or can I add plants and then the Co2?

 

[PrettyFishies]

Last night, we went to buy some plants. We were looking for anubias nana, hornwort, riccia, java moss, rotala magenta and jungle val... what we found was much less than we expected.

The first store we went to was the best in the area (Absolutley Fish)- for fish mainily, but they do have a plant expert on staff - who happened to have left early. So, we were essentially on our own. The only one we could properly identify as one on our list was the hornwort. So we purchased that and some Seachem potassium and left for teh next store in the area, NJ Pets.

Now NJ Pets is like Petco or PetSmart. They obvioisly focus on the cast and dogs. The plants were in these small tanks, not even close to eye level. There were several species lumped in together, but NOTHING WAS LABELED. When I asked if they had an inventory list or chart for each tank, I caused as state of mass confusion. No one knew anything about the plants. When I showed the kid my list, with all Latin names, the kid looked at me, bewildered, and asked, what are you going to do - "A planted tank" I replied.... "A tank with all plants? Cool" - After that.... I left.

Stop number 3 was Reef Encounter - 20 minutes away. They have an excellent setup for fish, but neglect the plants a bit. When we looked at the plant section, they had a few that we wanted, but the plants were covered in an ugly brown algae. We walked out after just 2 minutes.

Finally, we ended up at our last destination. The computer. I think we are going to place an order from AZGardens.com or aquariumlants.com. So frustrating.

We tested the tank last night for Ammonia and it is now down to 2ppm - Looks like those funky little bacterias are gaining traction.

One thing - There are white film-like growths on the plant this morning....Any ideas?

 

[sherry]

the plants look great. I love AZGARDENS. I have incredible luck with everything they send.

I also really like the plants I get from Lowcoaster on Aquabid (email him and ask for his stock list) and from Mark on the yahoo group annubias design.

Mark has FANTASTIC and unusual fish too and since you are in NJ both mark and charley (lowcoaster) will be cheap shipping. Lowcoaster is based in Queens and Mark in Philly. He can send me fish ups ground, they arrive over night for only 10 bucks shipping.

I know for sure that Lowcoaster has beautiful macrandra. Some of his is struggling in my tank right now, but the plant arrived incredible.


Try the scape without the white rock just for fun... . usually rocks are best when they are the same color as the substrate. Also it might be interesting to use the white rock's spot for the wood .. by throwing it a little off center you may find that it is a more interesting layout

 

[PrettyFishies]

Thanks for the comments. We're going to play around with it.

With the PH @ 8 is it too early to add the glasso?

 

[sherry]

the glosso wants the co2..

 

[PrettyFishies]

Well, we decided to order from aquariumplants.com. I was impressed with their selection and service. I took a look at their facility pics and that made me feel good inside

Anyways, I just got my order - Riccia, Java moss, baby tears, anubias nana, red lotus.... Can't wait to get them in...

Checked the tank yesterday for ammonia - it's now at 1.5 ppm - Is it time to check for Nitrite? or does it matter till the ammonia gets to zero?

Will have pics up tonight after planting. Stay tuned.