20g Light/CO2 Questions

[Arical]

Ive finally decided to take the leap towards live plants! It has been a dream of mine for quite awhile and I have finally decided to try it out. Mostly due to seeing some of the simply awe-inspiring planted tank setups.

I have an established 20g tank with several corydoras. I would like to plant any/all of the following (or similar species)

• Anachris (Egeria densa) (or a similar background)
• Java Fern (or a similar midground)
• Micro swords (Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae) or possibly Hemianthus callitrichoides, or a similar foreground grass.
• Java Moss (or a similar moss for the driftwood, lots of anchoring points)

Currently I just have the stock lighting, and I have a few ideas for what I want to replace it with: (either one)

• Coralife 65W
• Hagen Glo T5 (24W x 2)

What would my best option be with the plants I have selected? Is 65W necessary? Overkill?

I am alright with slow growth. Would these plants grow sufficiently with Excel? Or would they require CO2 injection? I'm trying to get by without CO2 injection for now, if possible.

One last thing I would like to note is that my PH is ~8.2. That is due to the hardness of our water, anything I've read on plants has stated that they prefer a PH between 6.x-7.x. Should this affect my choice of plants?

Thank in advance

 

[Blueiz]

The 65 watt would be overkill for everything except the micro sword. With a little over 3 w per gallon you would need co2 and the addition of ferts. I wouldn't personally go with this high of a light unless I changed to more highlight plants because of the risk of a lot of algae. Remember lighting is a nurtrient as well. It would be easy to run DIY on a 20 g tank, I have never used excel.

Im assuming the stock light that you have is a 20 w strip fluorescent, if this is the case, you should be able to grow everything you mentioned, but the micro sword with that, and not have to does excel or diy co2.

 

[Arical]

Thanks for your feedback! I kinda figured the 65W would be overkill, if I dropped down to the 48W Hagen Glo, would that be a reasonable option? With the Hagen, I could also make one of the lights a 50/50 to provide ~36W, or even take it out entirely while I get used to live plants. The reason I ask is that I tried growing some low light plants with my current light quite a while ago and they didn't do so hot - I believe its 15W .

Would 36W be low enough to get away without CO2? A DIY CO2 system might be possible, but I am really looking at starting out simple.

I think I might just cut out the micro swords for now then.

 

[supradupafast]

I think you would do just great with 36W to grow without C02. You can always look into Root Tabs as they are extremely good. They last about 3 months (the SeaChem branded) and you would use about 3-4 tabs in your 20gal. I also recommend dosing Excel with every water change. (Approx 2 capfulls on a 50% + PWC on your 20ga)
Good Luck
Let us know how it turns out, and please.. Pictures

 

[Arical]

Thanks supra! I thought I had seen 50/50 T5 lights, but after looking into it a bit more I can't seem to find them anywhere. I must have been thinking of the 50/50 Actinic bulbs on the Coralife Aqualight PC.

I just wanted to verify, if I purchase the 65W Coralife PC 50/50 (10,000K & Actinic) the plants will see that as ~32W? If everything is good, I will submit my order tomorrow!

Sorry if I've made a ton of mistakes, this is all quite new to me! As well, I will try to get some pictures once I start on the tank.

 

[timwag2001]

i know co2 is an expensive step and a lot of people are afraid of taking the jump. but co2 is a nutrient too. its just as important as light and ferts. without co2 you should cut hc out of the equation too. they prefer co2 and higher lights. diy works but tends to fluctuate and fluctuating co2 can cause algae growth. if you are gonna jump to 2 watts of t5 lighting i would strongly suggest pressurized co2. and for the bulbs you should use 2 6700k bulbs. forget about the 50/50. and if i remember right the hagen dual strips dont work with one of the bulbs missing. and like blueiz said, just about all of those plants are low light plants.

you said that you were inspired by some nice tanks... here's my inspiration. as soon as i can afford it i'm gonna get an ada tank and try to replicate this one Conquered Tsukiyama 58 L - AAC Gallery

take a look around this site. you'll love it!
AAC 2009 - AAC Gallery

 

[timwag2001]

the t5 setup is better than the pc.

 

[Arical]

WOW thank you for that AAC site those tanks are amazing! I know I will be spending hours on this site. The tank you want to recreate looks phenomenal, I can't wait to see pictures!

One question still remains for me then, will 48W of T5HO be enough to grow some higher light plants such as the micro swords then (with CO2)? If so I would consider investing in CO2 and moving away from the low light plants in general.

For CO2, I have really only looked at the Milwaukee Regulator, for just over $100; doesn't seem too bad considering I could move it to a larger tank later. Although that means I need to do a lot more research now. Would I only need a tank and diffuser with that? Should I go with something completely different? Just when I thought I had my mind made up!

 

[timwag2001]

how tall is your tank?
if your tank is as short as i think it is, with co2, ei dosing, and t5 lights, you should be able to grow just about anything you want.
you can prob get a better deal on ebay. look around a little bit more. i have the same regulator and i got it with a ph monitor for about $180 i think.
you can definately use a glass diffusor with a small tank like that but you get a ton of little bubbles everywhere. you can make a reactor, its very easy, and you'll get 100% dissolved co2

 

[Arical]

I believe my tank is 16" High, but I can't verify that atm. I know its 12" Deep and 24" Long.

On ebay I found the same system for 90$, which really isn't that much cheaper (especially after shipping and all). If I could find a decent PH monitor that might be worth it though!

Have you heard anything about using the Milwaukee Regulator on a smaller tank? Im just wondering if it would be accurate enough to use on a tank my size. And for difusers and reactors I am completely clueless. I found this on ebay, would something like that be worth it? Do you have any suggestions for a diffuser?

 

[Blueiz]

Your tank is a 20 g tall, which would make it 17 in tall.

 

[Arical]

I just got home so I was able to measure it, it's 16" from the base to the top, so maybe about 15-15.5" of water to the bottom (water stops about an inch from the top). Would that put my tank at slightly less than 20g?

 

[Blueiz]

According to this link, it is still a 20 high. Are you measuring the inside, or outside of the tank?

 

[timwag2001]

milwaukee regulators and other regulators come with a needle valve so you can adjust the rate of co2 slowly. the milwaukee setup you're looking at has the needle valve right before the bubble counter. then you can count how many bubbles are going into your tank. and to answer your question yes it is accurate enough. the diffusor works fine. if you look at it though you can see a mist of little bubbles coming out. i personally hate that but a lot of people use them. to each their own. this is co2 a reactor CO2 Reactor 1000. or you can make your own out of pvc piping for a fraction of the price How To Build A CO2 Reactor | Build a Regulator | Test Kit. thats what i did. you dont get any bubbles that come out. the co2 gets completely confused

 

[Arical]

Ah, yup I guess that definitely makes me a 20g tall, good to know. I was measuring the outside of the tank.

That setup on rex looks really good, especially for the price. Except I don't have a canister filter, just a HOB; so I think the reactor is out until I get a canister. Im probably just going to go with the ebay diffuser, it's for a 55g, but the other ones are for nano tanks. The fact thats its for a 55g shouldn't hurt anything eh?

Shopping list so far:

• Hagen Glo T5 24" (48W)
  
• Milwaukee Regulator with Solenoid Vavle, Needle Valve and Bubble Counter
• Diffuser
• CO2 tank (locally)

For the time being I will just put the CO2 on a timer with the lights, and monitor the PH from there.

Is there anything else Im missing? CO2 resistant tubing, CO2 test? Or will that be pretty much good to go? Im already getting excited hehe.

 

[timwag2001]

co2 test is a drop checker. make sure you get 4dkh solution for it. co2 resistant tubing is a must. a timer to turn your solenoid on and off. what are you using for substrate?

 

[aveldina]

Arical I have seen 20 longs for sale locally and I am quite certain you have a 20 high. If that tank is made by all glass I've found this PDF useful for looking up size information for most standard size tanks -> http://www.aqueonproducts.com/assets/011/19784.pdf
Be sure to give me a heads up if you are wanting to put the light order in with my bulb and fry food order, between the three of us we should be able to pull off free shipping.
This is making me tempted to try CO2 as well hehe. If only I had 10 more hours in every day. On that note I suppose I should be studying...

 

[Arical]

Alright, so for the CO2 drop checker, is Red Sea CO2 test kit sufficient? I have a timer already, I'm assuming I can put the solenoid on the same timer as the lights eh? So that just leaves me with tubing.

For substrate I am currently using geosystem white sand, I can't remember exactly which grade, but I will be replacing it. Unfortunately it has been detrimental to my corys barbels. I was told that the type of sand would be good for them, however it is quite course and sharp.

Which leaves me with yet another question (oh so many of them ) should I be going with some fine sand (pool sand/play sand) or a smooth river type rock? I would love to go with the fine sand as I have heard the corys love it, however I don't know how well that would do with plants.

Aveldina, you know you want to! I'll definitely let you know before I put any order through, hurray free shipping!

Just want to say thanks a lot for everyones help so far!

 

[mfdrookie516]

pool filter sand... you can add root tabs for plants that pull nutrients from the substrate... works great in my 10g planted tanks

 

[Arical]

pool filter sand... you can add root tabs for plants that pull nutrients from the substrate... works great in my 10g planted tanks

I also see you have it in your mbuna community. I was reading through your 150 journal earlier today, looking really good! Is it fairly reasonable to vacuum? Do you need to stir it or do the MTS do a sufficient job?