432 watts of HO T-5 over 72 gallons?

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dapellegrini

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Messages
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Location
Phoenix, AZ
I am considering upgrading my Odyssea T-5 hood (216w) with a Catalina Aquariums hood. There are 6 and 8 light configurations sold on e-bay for between $250-$400... Since I under spent last time and am back on the market because of it, I would rather spend what it takes to be happy with the product...

On to my question... If I go with the 8x 54w configuration for a total of 432 watts over my 72 gallon, what could be the unintended consequences? I am starting to think that I am lacking in the lighting department for things like glosso... but I don't want to create new problems.

Here is a link to the hood (but not fitted with T-5's): http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/ultrareef/

The 6x configuration would give me 324w of light and would save me $50, but I would rather go over than under, as long as that doesn't cause new problems.

For the setup... Co2 injection and EI ferts, flourish root tabs in 50/50 flourite/gravel, etc...

TIA
 
Well my guess would be the glasso isn't doing as well because of the substrate. An upgrade to Eco Complete or a high nutrient substrate might be even more beneficial that blasting with that much light. It could be neccessary if the tank is over 24 inches tall so the penetration is higher but 5-6 watts/galon, nutrients gone very fast and if you fall off on dosing you could be in line for a huge algae farm. Some have done it and done it well in that high of light but you really have to stay on top of everything.

Lone is the one I know of that at least used to run really high light and does very well so hopefully he will put his $2.00 in as this is only my half penny because I haven't run more than medium to medium high light.
 
I think you are probably right about the substrate. That is a daunting project that I have been putting off, but will have to tackle eventually...

Perhaps I should go with a 6x hood (324w)... Or in my indecision, maybe I will just put that off until I work up the courage to replace the substrate... and then see if I am still having the same issues.
 
For plants like glosso, you really need a better substrate. As for the lighting, it may help some, but you need to somehow get more nutrients to the plants.

As for higher lighting, you will really need to learn the dosing. It's like going to the races. The plants will suck up the nutrients at a much higher rate, and the risk of algae is much greater. But I was able to get to the point of success. Takes a lot of work, and precice dosing. And also, very high CO2 levels. I keep mine at around 50ppm.

Currently I've cut my lighting down, due to fewer plants now. But I was running 520W on my 75G. Talk about fast pace, lol.
 
Wow. No problems with your fish at 50ppm of CO2? Where is your kH at?

I am still on the learning curve with ferts, and am already realizing that my plants are eating it up faster than I can put it in. My only real problem plants right now are Glosso and 4-leaf Clover. These also happen to be the plants the farthest away from the light, at the bottom of the tank. I REALLY wish I could establish some nice foreground plant cover, which is fueling my frustration.

Here's what I have in the tank:

3x Glossostigma (Glossostigma elatinoides) - Not happy at all - dying
1x Pennywort, Brazilian (Hydrocotyle Leucocephala) - Doing well
1x Ludwigia Peruensis (Ludwigia peruensis) - Doing well
1x Rotala Magenta (Rotala macrandra v. 'narrow leaf') - Doing well
1x Rotala Indica (Rotala roundifolia) - Doing well
1x Telanthera Rosefolia (Alternanthera reineckii) - Doing well
1x Rotalla Wallichii (Rotalla wallichii) - Doing well
2x CLOVER, FOUR LEAF (Marsilea quadrifolia) - Not too happy
1x Java Moss (Vesicularia Dubyana) - Oh this one isn't so happy either
1x Tiger Lotus, Red (Nymphaea zenkeri) - Just sprouting
1x Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) - Way too happy
1x Ludwigia, Narrow Leaf(Ludwigia palustris) - Doing well
3x Amazon Sword - Doing well
1x Madagascar lace plant (Aponogeton madagascariensis) - Doing great
1x Melon Sword (Echinodorus osiris) - Doing well
1x Aponogeton ulvaceus - Grown 10x over in 2 weeks and flowered 3x already
1x Cabomba - Green - Doing well
Lots of Jungle Val - kind of in limbo
And some unidentified Crypts (I think) - Doing really well
 
No problems with the fish at 50ppm. I have some surface aggitation as well. And am now using CO2 mist as well. Doesn't hurt the fish at all.

As for ground cover, try and find E. Tiandra. It's an excellent ground cover, a fast grower, and will have much less algae problems, as it will out-compete the algae for nutrients. Plus I really like how it looks too. And you don't need the ultra-high lighting and CO2 that the other ground covers need. It's doing great in my 10G tank with screw-in CF and no CO2.
 
Thanks for the E. Tiandra recommend... Found some pics on another board and I like the idea a lot... now to find some...

BTW, here is the link to the pics I found: http://www.aquariummalta.com/topic....&Topic_Title=The+foreground+of+a+planted+tank

On the CO2 thing... Are you buffering up your KH? Where is your PH and KH? Also, what do you mean by CO2 mist? Just a different diffuser? I use pressurized through a reactor and out one of my XP3 spray bars.

Thanks!
 
If you were to raise it up to 8 inches above the tank it might work with the highest light levels. Could be a good way to get the fixture off the top of the tank so you can leave the light in place and be bale to scape and do what you need to without it being in the way. Just a thought.
 
Just ordered some E. Tiandra off of Aquabid. Will see if I have better luck under current conditions.

For lighting, if I do get the 8x fixture, which sits 4.5 inches over the aquarium, I could always remove or not use some of the lighting if it was just getting too crazy. Of course 6x is probably already more than enough... Not sure what I would ever really do with 8x 54w.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
As for me, my ph is driven down to around 6.0-6.2 via CO2, and my kh is 60 and gh is 100.

CO2 mist is a way to get CO2 to the plants via a mist. Basically, it's just running your CO2 tubing to the intake of a powerhead, which breaks up the bubbles to a mist, which it disperses through the tank.

As for the E. tiandra, I didn't know it flowered, lol. Will have to keep tabs on mine. I wonder how often it does, and if certain conditions need to be met.
 
My main tank has 390watts (6x 65w power compacts) over 72gallons. I can't imagine needing more light that that, and even that is probably more than is needed for most plants. I assure you though, it is plenty of light to grow every possible species of algae, if you are into that ;-)

The lights are only on for 10 hours a day.
I use EI for my fert routine on that tank. It gets a 50% PWC on Saturdays. 15gallons of the PWC is RO/DI water. At that time it gets 1 tsp of Seachem Equilibrium (GH booster), and 1 tsp of K2SO4, Potassium sulfate.
On Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday I dose 3/4 tsp of KNO3, and 3/4 tsp of a 10% strength Fleet enema solution.
On Monday, Thursday, and Friday I dose 3 tsp (15ml) of Seachem Flourish.

This shot shows some E. Trianda, next to some Glosso under that light. On another thread somone says their cories are digging up their triandra. Here you can see mine rooting around in that hedge, but it's not moving ;-)
72-triandra-glosso.JPG
 
Beautiful tank! What brand hood are you using, or do you have retros? Perhaps I should just give up my T-5s and go with CF.

Also thanks for the dosing levels... Nice to compare apples to apples with tank size at least. What is your CO2 level and PH at?

Some day my aquarium will look like that...
 
54w x 2 is fine for a 72 gallon tank actually.
Af has a nice tank, much like an amano tank with no issues growing thick and full with such a light.

I've grown Gloss just fine without EC, ADA etc, plain flourite etc, just plain 2-3mm sand.
I've grown it at 1.5 w/gal of plain old normal output T12 lighting too.

So is one of my clients and he complains about it growing fast.
He has 1.5 w/gal of T12's over a 28" deep 150 gal tank.

So it's not the high light and not the substrate that are critical.

Lower light slows the growth rates down.
Most all aquarium plants are low light plants. some can handle next to nothing, but in general, they are all shade adapted.

All more light does is make them grow faster, demand more CO2 which in turns demands more NO3/PO4/K. etc on down the line.

And this means more weeds which means more work and pruning for you.
Gloss easily will do 2" per day with high light, why would you want that or more?

If you focus on good CO2 and good nutrients in the water column, 95% of all paknts grow like mad and require no substrate ferts.

I grew plants for 2 decades with plain old sand.
And to high level.

ADA substrate will make them grow faster under higher light and helps some plants do much better, but they are not the plants folks often make erronous claims as to plants that prefer substrate ferts, they speculate and incorrectly that because they have big roots, they must take in all their nutrients that way, one does not follow the other by any stetch.

Might be the plants come from fast flowing waters and they need to roots to prevent becoming dislodges, Crypts and swords fall right into that group.

Gloss is a little vicious weed.
It grows fast in many conditions.

It does not need high light and 1/2 dozen folks have consistently shown this in the local club here as well as 3 clients and myself several times.

I only keep it in a non CO2 tank now.

You do basic EI and give it CO2, 2 w/gal, you will grow it well irrespective of Flourite, EC,. ADA substrates, there was a time before any of those where ever available :)
Both Amano and the rest of the hobbyist grew it quite well.



Regards,
Tom Barr




l
 
Beautiful tank! What brand hood are you using, or do you have retros? Perhaps I should just give up my T-5s and go with CF.

Thank You ;-)
I am using two lights, Both are Current USA Sattelite fixtures. One has 4x 65w, and was on my 55g before. The other has 2x 65w. I have nothing but good things to say about these fixtures. My older unit had a ballast burn out, and the company sent me a new one free of charge. Also, I have read some complain the fan is too loud on these, that is not my experience with them.

As for using CF or T5, I have not used the T5's. Those who do seem happy with them, I think the T5's are less expensive to operate in the long run. In fact, mostly I read only good comments about using those lights.

As for ph-about 6.2. Kh-about 2 dKh. Which by chart is like 38ppm. In reality, I crank the CO2 as it feeds into a powerhead as high as I can, and let it fill my tank with the mist.

And this means more weeds which means more work and pruning for you.
Gloss easily will do 2" per day with high light, why would you want that or more?

I removed the glosso for just that reason, too much growth. It is a weed. At high light, you may at first enjoy the daily growth. But soon you may find yourself seeking the slowest growing plants to keep the maintanence reasonable. As Tom mentions, for 99.9973% of all tanks about 2wpg will let you grow what you want.
 
I have kept freshwater aquariums for around 18 years now, just recently came into some money and decided to invest whatever it takes to create a planted aquarium like I see in the pics (i.e. Zezmo's)... So many contridicting opinions on what you do and don't need to do... Wading through it all is really the hardest part.

Lighting has been the thing I have consistently heard the most about, but sounds like perhaps I can fair well with what I have... I take Tom's comments as fairly authorative on the topic and will see where I get with EI.

soon you may find yourself seeking the slowest growing plants to keep the maintanence reasonable

I have started to come to the same realization about my fast growing background plants... Not so much fun any more... Orginally put them in there to get my nutrient and CO2 consumption up. On the other side, my glosso, which seems to be in a state of paralysis or slow death is also not too much fun... I will be very happy when my foreground starts to tire me in the same way!

Zezmo - Thanks for the info on your lights. I think I will stick with T-5's and perhaps take my current hood through the end of the year. Sounds like if I can get ferts right, I should start to have some better results with my foreground. That and an eventual changing of the substrate to something a bit finer than my current gravel mix.
 
Don't fret, it's a lesson that you must learn, folks can warn you, but you have to learn some things on your own.

Many of us are very stubborn but have tempered it over time:)
Europeans tend to use much less light as rule.
They have different opinions as result and have more play in their routines and generally less algae issues for newer folks.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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