50gal plants dying or not growing?

[caykuu]

I set up a 50g planted aquarium exactly a year ago using one Zoo Med Flora Sun t5HO bulb and one lower watt bulb of the same brand... I remember the watts being around 200... but I don't remember exactly. I did conclude that it was moderate lighting.

My main plants are water sprite, rotala indica, hairgrass, and wysteria. They were growing pretty well for the entire year until just these past few weeks... Basically, I went lazy and I didn't do a water change or dose ferts/excel in 5 weeks, and within that time, 70% of the wysteria and rotala leaves disappeared... and the water sprite started browning/yellowing... But the hairgrass was always a failure the entire year, which I also am confused about.

I don't have pressurized CO2. I dose flourish excel once every few days.
My substrate is Ecocomplete.

I do have an algae problem... hair algae grows SO FAST in my tank, and I remove them with my fingers once a day. I'd like to note that within the 5 weeks of horror, the hair algae covered all of my plants... not sure if this is the reason. Side question, what's the solution to minimize algae without going high-tech?

So with all this info given, what can be the problem/reason why my plants suddenly all went unhealthy on me? Namely, water sprite has a rep for being super hardy and fast-growing, but mine has not grown AT ALL in the past 6 months.... (which is long before my 5 weeks of horror...) very confused.

ALSO, my dad claims that the t5HO bulbs require a brand new bulb once a year to maintain the wattage... that's expensive. Is this true?

Excuse me for the long post. Overall, my planted tank experience has been a failure, so now I'm looking for answers and tips so that I won't make the same mistakes again.

 

[aqua_chem]

This sounds very much like a nutrient/CO2 limitation situation. Possibly both. You have a good deal of light for no CO2/low fert addition. This is very likely the cause of your algae as well.


Excel needs to be dosed daily for maximum effectiveness, as it has a half life of something like 13 hours in a tank. Inconsistent dosing might be playing a role in your issues (albeit a minor one).



Also, your dad's pretty much dead on about T5HO bulbs. They need to be replaced every 1-1.5 years due to spectrum shifting, decrease in output, etc. It's one of the reasons LEDs have been catching on (imagine chagrin of reefers that have 4-12 bulbs to replace at a time).

 

[jcolon]

This sounds very much like a nutrient/CO2 limitation situation. Possibly both. You have a good deal of light for no CO2/low fert addition. This is very likely the cause of your algae as well.


Excel needs to be dosed daily for maximum effectiveness, as it has a half life of something like 13 hours in a tank. Inconsistent dosing might be playing a role in your issues (albeit a minor one).



Also, your dad's pretty much dead on about T5HO bulbs. They need to be replaced every 1-1.5 years due to spectrum shifting, decrease in output, etc. It's one of the reasons LEDs have been catching on (imagine chagrin of reefers that have 4-12 bulbs to replace at a time).

+1 ... Too much light and little to no CO2 means a haven for algae.

The charts in the link below I feel are useful in determining your light level (if you haven't used it already.)
PAR vs Distance, T5, T12, PC - New Chart

 

[mohican]

My question with the chart is interpreting the data to use for our tanks. A t5ho at 20 in depth sits between 60-70 par reading for 1 bulb. We usually run way more than 1 bulb. I have to multiply that par reading by number of bulbs to get some higher number, but how does that tell me what plants to keep or which fixture to buy? How did the author determine high, med, low light levels since the old system got red out? A 24" fixture will light a 20 gal tank differently than a 48" fixture. What about tank width (front to back)? Since bulbs are linear, their surface area covered seems small, even with reflectors. So a tank that is say 12" wide, would need how many fixtures to accommodate the entire tank keeping same par reading? 1,2, 3? Just curious if anyone has thought about the chart data.

My point is, imo, 2 bulbs even ho seems reasonable for a 50 gal tank and something else like nutrients, maintenance schedule, fish load, substrate depth, water supply etc. is causing the algae.

 

[jcolon]

My point is, imo, 2 bulbs even ho seems reasonable for a 50 gal tank and something else like nutrients, maintenance schedule, fish load, substrate depth, water supply etc. is causing the algae.

Yep... I'd have to say 5 weeks of little to no maintenance, not dosing ferts / Excel with her light output did her plants in. I'm thinking with the plants down, there was nothing to help keep the algae in check ... Though from the OP's post... algae has always been an issue.

Question is... With the OP's current set up, is going a pressurized CO2 the solution?

 

[caykuu]

Would it be smarter to switch to LED lights then? I didn't get them initially, because I read on another forum that LED lights do nothing for plants... Is this true? If so, how much wattage or what kind of LED lights should I get?

Thanks much on the info on excel... I didn't realize my lighting was high.
My tank's about 3 feet wide, 1 foot depth, and 2 feet height. It's a Seaclear system II 50g.

About going pressurized CO2, I don't have any plants that require high light. They're either low or low to moderate. Does pressurized CO2 ensure flourishing plants? Or would it be the same if I dosed excel every day and switched to lower lighting?

Thanks for the chart, btw.

 

[aqua_chem]

My point is, imo, 2 bulbs even ho seems reasonable for a 50 gal tank and something else like nutrients, maintenance schedule, fish load, substrate depth, water supply etc. is causing the algae.

Right, but that's like saying tornadoes don't kill people, things flying through the air do. When it comes down to it, it's the light that causes the issues. When you're using high output lighting, even if you don't have enough light to outright need CO2, your tank is a precarious balance that can easily be disturbed. It's basically like cheaping out on the foundation of a building, and then when it collapses, blaming the occupants for being too heavy.

Another thing that people often neglect when considering light is that light isn't evenly distributed throughout a tank, but rather it is more intense closer to the fixture. While this might seem obvious, it has further implications. Consider two tanks, a 12g long (36x8x9) and a 50g (36*16*20). A dual T5HO on a 12g is way to much light, but what is it on a 50g? It's not that simple of a question. At 8", the light level in the 50g is the same level of light as in the 12g, and this level of 'too much' extends down to probably 12" at least, making over half the tank 'too much' light. There might be medium light at the substrate levels, but certainly not once you start to enter the mid to upper levels. This is also exhibit A of why WPG is garbage.

It is my opinion (and I might be on my own on this one) that whenever you are using T5HO, you should be prepared to provide some form of carbon supplementation.

 

[BBradbury]

Your Planted Tank

Hell c...

Whoa. That's a lot of info. Here's what I think. You have too much light, which is very likely the source of your algae problem. Half that amount of light is sufficient for most aqaurium plants. T5, 6500K bulbs are a good choice. Two for your 50 G is plenty.

Large, frequent water changes are needed. They'll keep the mineral levels high in the tank water. I change out at least half the water in my planted tanks weekly. The plants need those minerals and the water changes will help control the algae.

If you have a lot of fish in the tank, that's all the ferts the plants need. Some like to dose the trace elements and that's fine. Just dose according to instructions.

CO2 isn't a requirement. It's definitley possible to create a nicely planted tank without a separate carbon dioxide system. Dose Seachem's Flourish Excel instead if you want to.

Your Dad is right about the bulbs, but that's important to the more light demanding plants. If you keep to the low to moderate light plants, then replace the bulbs when they go out.

I hope I've covered enough to get you started and remember, this is just one, old water keeper's opinion.

B

 

[Jscoggins]

I agree 100% with these guys...only because I have had experience in this field...

My 55 gal f.w. planted tank did good for a year or so..I slacked off on the co2 injection (dyi) and my lights went out..had to order new light fixture..in the mean time my plants started looking bad, hair algae everywhere, green algae on the glass daily, ph spike, omg..what to do

The new light fixture came in, got it going...then the algae really hit..omg..thought it was bad before, yeah right... Now what!!!

So I did alot of reserch on this site and asked questions..alot of my questions had already been answered years ago, just had to find them..

conclusion: way, way, way too much light and not enough food (co2) I didn't have any going..so I cut my lights down (4 t5ho 54w - 2 t5ho 54w) and turned them on an hour later, and started 2 2ltr. diy co2..I know alot of people on this site dosn't like diy systems, but for me..if you can keep up with it (solution changes) it will work well...promise..I do have before and after pic. if you are interested

So shut down some of your light and start some co2, in some way..and it will fix your problem...good luck!!!

 

[jcolon]

Would it be smarter to switch to LED lights then? I didn't get them initially, because I read on another forum that LED lights do nothing for plants... Is this true? If so, how much wattage or what kind of LED lights should I get?

You can check these out as a possible option.
http://www.marineland.com/sites/marineland/products/detail.aspx?id=4653

Thanks much on the info on excel... I didn't realize my lighting was high.
My tank's about 3 feet wide, 1 foot depth, and 2 feet height. It's a Seaclear system II 50g.

Assuming your fixture sits directly on top of the water, two T5HO puts you at high light output.. At least according to the chart

About going pressurized CO2, I don't have any plants that require high light. They're either low or low to moderate. Does pressurized CO2 ensure flourishing plants? Or would it be the same if I dosed excel every day and switched to lower lighting?

I'm going to say, given your current lighting, you have to supplement carbon, either by dosing excel, or a pressurized CO2... I think a 50gal is a bit too large for a DIY CO2. Switching to a single T5HO may work better since your tank's only a foot in depth... That'll put you in the low end.

Thanks for the chart, btw.

See my bolded replies.

 

[caykuu]

At this point, dosing excel every day and all that, is it possible for my plants to pick themselves back up again? I'm going to assume this is a bad time to buy new plants... I was just thinking java ferns and moss-- stuff that can't go wrong.

Thanks for the options.

 

[jcolon]

At this point, dosing excel every day and all that, is it possible for my plants to pick themselves back up again? I'm going to assume this is a bad time to buy new plants... I was just thinking java ferns and moss-- stuff that can't go wrong.

Thanks for the options.

I can't really say, but anyway you can include pics? That may help.

 

[mohican]

If 2 bulbs (even 48" t5ho) on a 50 gal is way way too much light causing an algae outbreak, then I should have a forest. I have 8 bulbs t5ho on 125 and have very little/no algae. I'm confused. How does that make sense? IMO, it sounds like the nutrient imbalance or something else causing it. Imbalance between light, temperature and CO2 cause algae (according to encyclopedia of aquarium plants).

 

[caykuu]

Here are the photos.. It doesn't look as horrible on camera, since everything's just a mass of green. I'm thinking most of the green is from all the algae though.

If you notice the lanky thing in the center that rises up- that's wysteria. Barely recognizable anymore. Same for the other lanky thing on the far left.

Are the plants able to recover from this and become lush again if I keep dosing excel every day and flourish once a week?

http://s17.postimage.org/x7v95nrzz/DSC01914.jpg

http://s16.postimage.org/ib8df9605/DSC01913.jpg

 

[aqua_chem]

What's your nitrate testing at?


Mohican, you have two sets of fixtures right? Two 36" placed end to end? That's essentially just 4 bulbs. Don't you also use dry ferts and CO2?