ADA substrate vs MGO

[Coyne]

So, Ive got everything purchased and waiting for my 45G rescape... everything except the substrate.
I had been leaning heavily towards the ADA Amazonia substrate (regular sized with the powder cap). Lets face it, James Findley over at The Green Machine and his aquascaping make a good commercial for the stuff. The pH lowering effect would be an added benefit as my water is a rather high 8.2. My water is also super Hard though, so Im not sure how effective it will be in the long run. If it does work, then that would make the added expense worth it to me.

However, as I get closer to pulling the trigger, Im starting to wonder if going with the Miracle-Gro dirted tank might be a less expensive route that will ultimately yield the same results. Information outside of DustinsDirtedTanks seems limited... and Im not keen on buying his books because he was a little jerky when I met him at an aquarium trade show last fall.

Im not sure if I would do the Eco-Complete cap or just a simple black sand. Im planning on a large shoal of Pygmy Corys, so probably the sand. However, if the Eco-complete would make a significant difference with the plants, then I think I could be convinced to go that route.

Im hoping for some insight from folks who have experience with either... or even better, both. Pros and cons... tips and tricks.

If it makes a difference, here's a list of the plants Im planning on planting:
DBT carpet
Giant Hair Grass
Golden Lloyliella
Hygrophila (blue)
Limnophilia Hippuroides
Golden Nesae
Rotala Indica
Red Tiger Lotus

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Hi Coyne - I haven't tried a dirted tank yet. But from what I gather, it can be quite messy if you pull plants out. However, I do have experience with using ADA AquaSoils (Amazonia and Africana) and I can tell you that AS is considered "the best" substrate you can get and I concur. It is expensive but in my experience, it yields EXCELLENT results. Prior to ADA AS I was using Floramax with root tabs. I've also used Floramax as a first layer and then topped it with Fluval Stratum a few times. But out of everything I've tried so far, AS is top on my list. The substrate looks great and grows even better. You have a good plan with topping it off with the powder type. It will look so nice. I just did that in my 60p rescape.

I also enjoy watching the Green Machine scape videos. James has deep pockets or he's sponsored by ADA. But he uses the 'complete' ADA substrate system with all those powders and such. To save some money, I've never used those and still got fantastic results.

 

[Coursair]

My ADA Amazonia tank grows plants like crazy. It is light substrate. You do have to be a little careful not to uproot stuff. I have Amazonia Multi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coyne]

Mr. Findley is clearly sponsored by ADA, so its good to hear endorsements from folks who spent there own hard earned money on the product. They're also pretty clear that all those extra additives and whatnot are not required for a successful tank, so I think I would likely skip those.

 

[Old Scales]

+1 on the ADA. Expensive but considered the best turn key substrate out there. OS.

 

[Rivercats]

I've been dirting tanks for years and they make plants grow very well. I use Just Natural Organic Potting Soil capped with Eco complete. The mix I use is very high in organic peat and it helps keep my water on the soft side. It does take several months of breaking down the organics to really see the softening effect on the water. My 220g is coming up on being dirted 3 years now. I recently added about an inch layer of Eco again as organic soil, especially the brand I use gets very small and fine over a couple years and the cap can often begin to sink into the dirt. Re-capping after a couple years or so ensures no dirt getting into the tank.

I also have done major rescaping several times, even removing large Swords and Crypts with minimal dirt mess. Any substrate can be messy when rescaping but especially when messing with deep, large rooting plants. I have literally hundreds of stem plants and constantly am pulling up and replanting them.

So honestly both ADA and Dirt work well and yield excellent results. If you can afford the ADA you certainly can't go wrong using it but if your doing a large tank it can be extremely costly.

 

[Coyne]

Haha...
Well, the good news is that the people I was hoping would chime in, did.
The bad news is that there is a divide among their respected opinions.

I think I will stay with the original ADA Aquasoil plan. I've invested in the semi-expensive hardware that I wanted, so I don't think I can justify skimping on the substrate.

Now I just need to figure out how much I will need. They come in 9 liter bags. Anybody know the formula for figuring this out? Or should I just call the store that sells it (I forget what it's called)?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Sorry I don't know the calculation on how much substrate would be needed, but that would also depend on how you plan to scape your tank. So it might require less if you plan to use hardscape materials like stones or driftwood, or even incorporate a sandy beach or river. Or more if you want to create slopes.

A way you can create slopes and not use expensive substrate to do so is to use eggcrate (light panel diffusers) to build up levels as a base, or you can use media bags filled with gravel or inexpensive stones and just pour the AS on top. I aim for at least a few inches of depth in front and 5" in the back. You should also use substrate supports as AquaSoil is pretty lightweight and will easily flatten out the slopes you banked up.

You might be able to search TPT to see if anyone used AS in a similar or same sized tank you have. That might give you an idea of how much to get.

 

[Coyne]

All of the above! My hard scape will be mostly driftwood, but I do have some small/medium rocks. Last night I was sort of playing around with placement and decided that I want the back right corner to be about 6 inches higher than the rest of the tank. I was thinking that one of the pieces of DW could do the heavy lifting, but I think I'll figure out how to make some additional supports. Im hoping to make it more of a "shelf" and less of a mound. I'll look in to the eggcrate as well... I think Ive see that at Home Depot.

Once I get that part sorted out, I'll give Aqua Forest Aquarium a call and see if they cant help me figure out the rest.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Check out this thread for inspiration on the use of eggcrate.
Fallen Tree Branch 60cm

 

[Coyne]

Wow! Im not sure if that guys tank inspired me or completely soul crushed me. There's no way mine will look that good.
BUT now that Ive seen how to build that egg-crate skeleton/frame, it might look better than it would have with out it.

I think I may have to slow my roll and do more planning.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Yeah his tank is amazing and his ability to DIY the mod for the lights and the layout eggframe thing was pretty cool. But don't let that discourage you. There will be plenty of opportunity for trial and error. I haven't tried eggcrate myself, but I have used media bags of cheap gravel buried under the AS to create the slope on a budget.

When I first started the planted tank hobby, I researched and researched, saved pics, bookmarked, and read up on a lot of tanks I found to be interesting. Even to this day, I still struggle to keep things simple. My scapes turn out a little on the collectoritis side, a controlled chaos if you will. One day I'll nail the more natural & minimalistic looking scapes. LOL

But yeah, you're on the right path.... especially getting inspiration from The Green Machine and such. Tropica and Aquascape TV are great ones too.