Algae identification and advice
- Thread starter Potluck
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well. To be honest the answer to your problems is simple. Your aquarium is not stable.
This pretty much sums my method up.
‘The biofilter needs TIME to establish. And more importantly - it needs to establish in an UNINTERRUPTED environment. Meaning no weekly water changes, no constant adding or removal of fish, no what not interventions by you just because you think the tank needs it.
The timeline is 8 to 16 months. Yes, it is "slow" according to our fast track mindsets that want everything right here right now. Not everybody knows that 1 inch of the surface of terrestrial soil takes about 200 years to form - mineralization, all the microbes and their relationships to settle into a functional groove. That is Nature's timeline - an example to get a perspective.
In a tank the goal is really to give time to the microbes so they interact with each other and establish relationships that lead to a certain mix of species. Kind of like people settling an area - over time you have all kinds of races, tribes, nationalities. The balance can only come from - surprise, surprise - uninterrupted development for some time. Any kind of conflict, disasters, changes lead to artificial balance that is not stable. Same with microbes in an aquarium. Most people do exactly that - without knowing they interfere with the natural flow of life. You get the picture.
And that is it. The main problem is not understanding how all that works. In fact you can not know how it all works because it is too complicated. There are no scientific studies about aquarium balance that will give you practical advice and guarantee the results. But plenty of hobbyists have figured practical approaches how to achieve a balanced aquarium.
As I said - the balanced, properly established biofilter completely changes the aquarium. From my own experience/experiments I can tell you that last year I got 22 + rare species of aquatic plants from 3 or 4 different people and I planted them in a properly established tank. Despite the fact that the plants came from people that are well known as "high tech" folk their rare plants grew in my tank with very low light, barely any CO2, no fertilizers, no dosing. And no water changes. Things like that sound crazy and that is why most people can't digest them. But that is exactly how a properly established biofilter works.
The same goes for fish. If the biofilter is working properly you will see fish display colors that you will never see anywhere else. They will spawn in conditions that are supposed to not induce any kind of spawning behavior. Life span will be extended to many more years than normally accepted - want it or not because deformed fish will live forever in well balanced tanks.
So you can either wait 8-16 months and change very little during that time OR you can take "dirt" from a well established and long running existing tank and dump it in the new tank. The cycling is pretty much immediate - 3-4 hours tops. And as I mentioned already - ultra clear water next day. The tank can be neglected for months (to where the water evaporates 30%), or be converted to high tech with all the bells and whistles, light varied up and down to your liking, fish overfed or not fed at all. It will never have any issues’
This pretty much sums my method up.
‘The biofilter needs TIME to establish. And more importantly - it needs to establish in an UNINTERRUPTED environment. Meaning no weekly water changes, no constant adding or removal of fish, no what not interventions by you just because you think the tank needs it.
The timeline is 8 to 16 months. Yes, it is "slow" according to our fast track mindsets that want everything right here right now. Not everybody knows that 1 inch of the surface of terrestrial soil takes about 200 years to form - mineralization, all the microbes and their relationships to settle into a functional groove. That is Nature's timeline - an example to get a perspective.
In a tank the goal is really to give time to the microbes so they interact with each other and establish relationships that lead to a certain mix of species. Kind of like people settling an area - over time you have all kinds of races, tribes, nationalities. The balance can only come from - surprise, surprise - uninterrupted development for some time. Any kind of conflict, disasters, changes lead to artificial balance that is not stable. Same with microbes in an aquarium. Most people do exactly that - without knowing they interfere with the natural flow of life. You get the picture.
And that is it. The main problem is not understanding how all that works. In fact you can not know how it all works because it is too complicated. There are no scientific studies about aquarium balance that will give you practical advice and guarantee the results. But plenty of hobbyists have figured practical approaches how to achieve a balanced aquarium.
As I said - the balanced, properly established biofilter completely changes the aquarium. From my own experience/experiments I can tell you that last year I got 22 + rare species of aquatic plants from 3 or 4 different people and I planted them in a properly established tank. Despite the fact that the plants came from people that are well known as "high tech" folk their rare plants grew in my tank with very low light, barely any CO2, no fertilizers, no dosing. And no water changes. Things like that sound crazy and that is why most people can't digest them. But that is exactly how a properly established biofilter works.
The same goes for fish. If the biofilter is working properly you will see fish display colors that you will never see anywhere else. They will spawn in conditions that are supposed to not induce any kind of spawning behavior. Life span will be extended to many more years than normally accepted - want it or not because deformed fish will live forever in well balanced tanks.
So you can either wait 8-16 months and change very little during that time OR you can take "dirt" from a well established and long running existing tank and dump it in the new tank. The cycling is pretty much immediate - 3-4 hours tops. And as I mentioned already - ultra clear water next day. The tank can be neglected for months (to where the water evaporates 30%), or be converted to high tech with all the bells and whistles, light varied up and down to your liking, fish overfed or not fed at all. It will never have any issues’
Caliban my 2 filters are 5 years old, the tanks been set up for 6 years they Both have extra media, how is this not established or am I misunderstanding what you're saying, yes I've been doing water changes every week for the last 5 years, or are you saying that by me doing this hasn't enabled my tank to mature even though the filters are 5 years old?
ZxC
Aquarium Advice Addict
Hey Rick,
The more we hang out on fish tank forums, the more you will see the split between folks who advocate for lots of water changes, and those who can get by without any or with very minimal amounts of water changes.
I've had both tanks, both can work, but my personal experience has shown that larger, more frequent water changes and supplying plants with fertilizers will allow for more plant growth, healthier plant growth, and less annoying algae.
The more we hang out on fish tank forums, the more you will see the split between folks who advocate for lots of water changes, and those who can get by without any or with very minimal amounts of water changes.
I've had both tanks, both can work, but my personal experience has shown that larger, more frequent water changes and supplying plants with fertilizers will allow for more plant growth, healthier plant growth, and less annoying algae.
Oh I know, I like both approaches, caliban has helped me a lot in the past when it came to understanding sicknesses and parameters, you've helped me a lot with the plant area, little to no water changes can be done I just don't think I can get away with that approach even though I wish I could I also however can't afford a lot of ferts and still trying to figure out how to do dry.
Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
My question would be why are you having issues despite doing what you are doing and keeping the tank ‘clean’? The same thing happened to me.
Despite zero water changes I can be safe in the knowledge that my tank water is ‘cleaner’ than my tap.
Its really difficult to explain because I was in the same boat as where you are now with regards to plants but when you see the stages of tank maturity begin to unfold before your very eyes it really is amazing and the plants begin to explode.
“Things like that sound crazy and that is why most people can't digest them. But that is exactly how a properly established biofilter works”
You really do have to leave things constant and the biofilter completely undisturbed. The biofilter consists of a chain of organisms much much more in depth than just the nitrifying bacteria we so commonly allude to. If run properly, they are capable of denitrification. The water eventually becomes so clear its like there’s no water. The substrate begins to sparkle. The plants become a pain in the neck to keep from taking over and you will never see a spec of algae ever again.
Okay update, after adding 10 ml of ferts and equilibrium, I have more holes in my plants than I did before, I also have diatoms now, the staghorn/thread is still there and grows just as fast as with less ferts, my rainbows are much deeper in color (don't know if this is good or bad) and they are also way more fiesty (chasing each other around, cornering each other, etc etc). Don't know if this is play or aggression, all fish seem healthy, plants do see to be growing a tad bit better though, maybe this is plant transition from adjusting to gh/more nutrients? I don't know really but I do know my head hurts from banging it againsts a wall.
ZxC
Aquarium Advice Addict
One week is peanuts in terms of overcoming algae. Keep at it, heathier plants will result in less algae, whether that be in a tank with ferts + water changes or a minimal maintenance tank -- Healthy plant growth = less algae concern.
The fish are fine, maybe the increase in tds triggered spawning behavior, who knows. Aggression is fine with rainbows, and is to be expected with males + females in the tank.
It almost sounds like you have it pretty close and everything you try is more off balance. Thread algae can be pretty hard to get rid of unfortunately. Added a couple of thoughts but no magic bullet I can think of, just some ideas to consider with above.
Imo, tank stability and light duration/intensity is important as above. Nothing new there. And this will take a bit to fix as it sounds like you have some algae that loves your tank.
This is what I would try for here, maybe an idea a week.
Ferts - potassium keep dosing high, phosphate keep between 2 to 4 ppm and might discourage green algae, nitrates - you could try not dosing or light dosing (this is counter but I have seen nitrate dosing trigger algae in problem tanks, the same tank 6 months later doesn't care - this requires some care on plant selection and testing to make sure nitrates are naturally above 10ppm from fish waste without dosing).
CO2 - liquid carbon dosing - likely to get some melting but tool in the kit. Would start dosing. Try a split light cycle as well and keep water flow up to maximise CO2 into tank.
Lights - lower rather than higher. If you think about right leave as is but ime people tend to have lights too high rather than too low. Try experimenting with intensity as well as duration - this can take weeks.
Plants - some of those plants sound a lost cause - would throw out. Buy plants from good shop and try those / keep trying different plants. Faster growing stem plants and floating plants have a better of chance of growing better than algae. Fine leaf plants could actually be worth a try as well as less room on leaf compared to broad leaf plants for thread algae to attack.
UV unit - you could try adding one. Not the solution but another tool in kit like algae loving fish and might as well enjoy tank.
If all continues to be a problem, would chuck out all plants, bomb tank, add CO2 injection but stay low light while tank is sorted.
Substrate - could be worth getting a good planted tank substrate. In heavily planted tanks, I don't clean mine at all and it's actually better for plants (not so good for fish
).
Imo, tank stability and light duration/intensity is important as above. Nothing new there. And this will take a bit to fix as it sounds like you have some algae that loves your tank.
This is what I would try for here, maybe an idea a week.
Ferts - potassium keep dosing high, phosphate keep between 2 to 4 ppm and might discourage green algae, nitrates - you could try not dosing or light dosing (this is counter but I have seen nitrate dosing trigger algae in problem tanks, the same tank 6 months later doesn't care - this requires some care on plant selection and testing to make sure nitrates are naturally above 10ppm from fish waste without dosing).
CO2 - liquid carbon dosing - likely to get some melting but tool in the kit. Would start dosing. Try a split light cycle as well and keep water flow up to maximise CO2 into tank.
Lights - lower rather than higher. If you think about right leave as is but ime people tend to have lights too high rather than too low. Try experimenting with intensity as well as duration - this can take weeks.
Plants - some of those plants sound a lost cause - would throw out. Buy plants from good shop and try those / keep trying different plants. Faster growing stem plants and floating plants have a better of chance of growing better than algae. Fine leaf plants could actually be worth a try as well as less room on leaf compared to broad leaf plants for thread algae to attack.
UV unit - you could try adding one. Not the solution but another tool in kit like algae loving fish and might as well enjoy tank.
If all continues to be a problem, would chuck out all plants, bomb tank, add CO2 injection but stay low light while tank is sorted.
Substrate - could be worth getting a good planted tank substrate. In heavily planted tanks, I don't clean mine at all and it's actually better for plants (not so good for fish
).
I just caught up reading this thread. My brain hurts 
Rick, just grow rocks and driftwood. Stock your tank with mean, aggressive fish. Algae? Who cares? Just scrape it off the glass once a week. That system works for me. A lot less stress.
Don't get me wrong, I totally admire aqua Gardners like Z×C & Caliban. They have vastly different styles, but they have one thing in common "A Green Thumb". I'll be first to admit that I don't have one and maybe you don't either. Your tank looked pretty good to me judging from the last pic posted. Take a deep breath, try to suppress the OCD, and enjoy your beautiful tank.
Rick, just grow rocks and driftwood. Stock your tank with mean, aggressive fish. Algae? Who cares? Just scrape it off the glass once a week. That system works for me. A lot less stress.Don't get me wrong, I totally admire aqua Gardners like Z×C & Caliban. They have vastly different styles, but they have one thing in common "A Green Thumb". I'll be first to admit that I don't have one and maybe you don't either. Your tank looked pretty good to me judging from the last pic posted. Take a deep breath, try to suppress the OCD, and enjoy your beautiful tank.
ZxC
Aquarium Advice Addict
And always remember, algae will be there. Even the cleanest, most beautiful planted tanks around will have algae, you just have to look for it
Just seen I had posts as my phones been being silly, I am dosing high potassium /phosphates are 3-4, I've been fiddling with the light for some time now maybe to much tbh as I know it takes weeks to show improvements or disasters, the plant that has whiles in the leaves is only one my big Amazon, the older leaves of the wendtii reds I just trim off, as well as trimming the Amazon's leaves, I think my problem is patience, I'll try something for a week and see no. Improvement so I change it which isn't the way I'm supposed to do it I don't think, if it was regular algae I wouldn't care, if it wasn't on my buceps I wouldn't care but I can't do h202 on the buceps as it will kill them so I'm stuck removing as much as I can with every pwc which is back breaking lol.It almost sounds like you have it pretty close and everything you try is more off balance. Thread algae can be pretty hard to get rid of unfortunately. Added a couple of thoughts but no magic bullet I can think of, just some ideas to consider with above.
Imo, tank stability and light duration/intensity is important as above. Nothing new there. And this will take a bit to fix as it sounds like you have some algae that loves your tank.
This is what I would try for here, maybe an idea a week.
Ferts - potassium keep dosing high, phosphate keep between 2 to 4 ppm and might discourage green algae, nitrates - you could try not dosing or light dosing (this is counter but I have seen nitrate dosing trigger algae in problem tanks, the same tank 6 months later doesn't care - this requires some care on plant selection and testing to make sure nitrates are naturally above 10ppm from fish waste without dosing).
CO2 - liquid carbon dosing - likely to get some melting but tool in the kit. Would start dosing. Try a split light cycle as well and keep water flow up to maximise CO2 into tank.
Lights - lower rather than higher. If you think about right leave as is but ime people tend to have lights too high rather than too low. Try experimenting with intensity as well as duration - this can take weeks.
Plants - some of those plants sound a lost cause - would throw out. Buy plants from good shop and try those / keep trying different plants. Faster growing stem plants and floating plants have a better of chance of growing better than algae. Fine leaf plants could actually be worth a try as well as less room on leaf compared to broad leaf plants for thread algae to attack.
UV unit - you could try adding one. Not the solution but another tool in kit like algae loving fish and might as well enjoy tank.
If all continues to be a problem, would chuck out all plants, bomb tank, add CO2 injection but stay low light while tank is sorted.
Substrate - could be worth getting a good planted tank substrate. In heavily planted tanks, I don't clean mine at all and it's actually better for plants (not so good for fish
As far as substrate I can't do that right now on the fact everything is established, I don't have another tank to house 22 fish for a week while ammonia clears up, but yes my next tank will be dirted, but my substrate from what I read a post on the other day is the same as a plant substrate "can't remember the name" just cheaper, I have caribsea supernaturals "don't know how true the post I can no longer find is"
I did change the light around a bit as far as spectrum which lowers or increases intensity, I raised warm white, lowered pure white (which should lower intensity) plants seem to be stretching a bit more, I just need to stick with a plan longer than a week and stop fiddling and observe.
I wouldn't care if it was on the glass I dont have that type of algae, I have thread algae which if not removed will kill plants lol, I wouldn't care if it was regular algae [emoji23][emoji23], I love my tank it's just a nightmare to remove this algae so it doesn't smother my plants to deathI just caught up reading this thread. My brain hurts
Don't get me wrong, I totally admire aqua Gardners like Z×C & Caliban. They have vastly different styles, but they have one thing in common "A Green Thumb". I'll be first to admit that I don't have one and maybe you don't either. Your tank looked pretty good to me judging from the last pic posted. Take a deep breath, try to suppress the OCD, and enjoy your beautiful tank.
Oh for sure, I just don't want this algae to kill my plants is allAnd always remember, algae will be there. Even the cleanest, most beautiful planted tanks around will have algae, you just have to look for it
Is this to short to trim if not how exactly do I do it as I know trimming encourages new growth
To short to trim? https://imgur.com/a/Yh9IgB7
Here's a video of my tank and my crazy kangaroo creek trying to spawn with my parva [emoji23][emoji23], as well as the holes in my Amazon
https://youtu.be/70kGqepA3NA
To short to trim? https://imgur.com/a/Yh9IgB7
Here's a video of my tank and my crazy kangaroo creek trying to spawn with my parva [emoji23][emoji23], as well as the holes in my Amazon
https://youtu.be/70kGqepA3NA
Substrate sounds good.
I’d throw out any plant type that is regularly getting beaten up by algae. I’d still try all the ideas from everyone above but I’ve found some plants just don’t work. Tried for a year with red alt and could never get anything decent going.
Update, hair algae still a pain in the chops [emoji23][emoji23], tds went from 152 to 223, phosphate is 4, nitrate is 35, Sorry I cant type, was wiping down the light and it turned on so im blind atm, still added 10 ml thrive watching money just go gulp gulp and 3/4 tblspoon of equilibrium, I trimmed my pearl weed and holy crap it's a nightmare to replant lol, I had about 35 stems floating and somehow they got out of the ring so I now have 35 stems all over in the tank [emoji23][emoji23] (insert cuss word here ) planted about 30 stems, pulled up the bacopa trimmed dead stems off replanted in a more lighted area, the pearl weed was so thick when I started trimming it just came out to be a crap ton [emoji51]
Lol - yeah, must admit messy plants don’t do it for me anymore. I like them, don’t like the work
