Bringing out the reds.. yes another post

[sherry]

Okay.. I have heard several theories on this one.

Low nitrates... well a friend of mine has gorgeous reds while her nitrates are consistently around 20... her cuttings in my tank go green.

She has 4.5 [acronym:8a1d203927="Watts Per Gallon"]wpg[/acronym:8a1d203927] while I have 3 [acronym:8a1d203927="Watts Per Gallon"]wpg[/acronym:8a1d203927] ... it could be light intensity, but recently mark at annubius design suggested it could be the intensity of "blue" light... and suggested I add another 28 watt fixture with a 10,000 [acronym:8a1d203927="Kelvin or Potassium, depending on context"]K[/acronym:8a1d203927] bulb. The argument could work, because an overall higher intensity light would by its nature have more blue, even with 6700k bulbs.

any thoughts?

and finally there was a thread on aquabotanic that suggested it could be a matter of hgiher co2 and iron. Well I'm still working with excel and havent' turned on the co2 yet. Still really debating messing with my gorgeous soft water...

again any thoughts .. I'd like those nice rich reds but not at the expense of my softwater fish thanks!

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

How soft is your water?

I have a [acronym:176f94a966="Carbonate Hardness"]KH[/acronym:176f94a966] of 4 and can get hygro rosanervig to turn a deep red. the red doesn't seem to depend on [acronym:176f94a966="Nitrate"]NO3[/acronym:176f94a966].

So going from my experience with 1 red plant since I can't recall my red ludwiga..

Co2 = 8PPM or less
[acronym:176f94a966="Nitrate"]NO3[/acronym:176f94a966] = 10PPM unless dosed to 20PPM

Still red.

I do have a 50/50 bulb at the front of my tank.

Your friend could be right about the bulb. all leaves that are exposed to actinic lighting get red, all others that are exposed to 6500K only, are green with only a slight hint of red.

My lights are setup kinda wierd. I have 2 x dual 4' fixtures (1 T8, 1T12) both 1' above the tank. I have my old striplight sitting about 2" above the water surface at the very front with a 50/50 T6 bulb (Actinic/10K) so the light cuts down on an angle (visible before the mains come on) that actually puts a line through the plants. I'll try to get a picture of them and see if there is a definate colour difference where the plants are exposed to blues over where they get only reflected blues. Not the most scientific method, but I'm sure it will show if the blues will help.

[sherry]

water is still [acronym:ae5e3e7fc2="Carbonate Hardness"]kh[/acronym:ae5e3e7fc2] [acronym:ae5e3e7fc2="General Hardness"]gh[/acronym:ae5e3e7fc2] 2/2

I may try that extra fixture. it comes iwth a 50/50 bulb...

[crazycat]

sherry,

just to clarify for everyone:

i have 4 [acronym:83c0aa26c9="Watts Per Gallon"]wpg[/acronym:83c0aa26c9]--not 4.5
i have 2 10,000K bulbs and 2 6700 bulbs
8 [acronym:83c0aa26c9="Degrees of carbonate hardness"]dkh[/acronym:83c0aa26c9] (relatively hard)
15.5 dgh (who knew it was that hard--it's 2 out of the tap!)
6.8 [acronym:83c0aa26c9="power head or Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions, depending on context"]ph[/acronym:83c0aa26c9] (acidic)
[acronym:83c0aa26c9="Nitrate"]no3[/acronym:83c0aa26c9]: 20ppm

i dose K2so4, plantex csm+b +iron +extra magnesium according to travis' schedule. and i do a 50% water change 1x/wk

and yes, my plants, epspecially the ludwigia repens, turn a beautiful red as the reach the surface.

and we'll see if i can actually grow tonina fluviatilis in my tank ;')

[sherry]

well according to Mark, your reds may actually be a result of those 10,000 [acronym:4e1f8ed4c6="Kelvin or Potassium, depending on context"]k[/acronym:4e1f8ed4c6] bulbs.

what does travis say about the effect of extra magnesium on reds? Mark seems pretty sure it is the blue light that gets absorbed... and works wonders.

oh, and as a side issue completely someone on apistogramma.com suggested lace rock may raise phosphates.... keep an eye out just in case.

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

Well, now that the tank lights are on I can tell you, the reds are located front and back which contradict the theory that Blue has anything to do with it.. I have some that are green at the front (directly under 50/50 actinic/10k) and some that are red at the back where there is no actinic aside from reflected light.

It must be something else. Just thought I'ld let you know. (all have a hint of red tho)

[sherry]

well, given Cat's tank.. reds don't require low [acronym:c8aba84c86="Nitrate"]no3[/acronym:c8aba84c86], tho I'm sure that is one method... so what else?

[czcz]

I think of all things in the hobby, color is the one you have to experiment most with to figure out. It generally depends on the plant, but other places to start are increasing [acronym:3287f63f01="Iron"]Fe[/acronym:3287f63f01]/traces and simply more light. 10000K and especially GE 9325K bulbs definitely make reds pop, but I am not so sure it causes them, though absorbtion of different spectrum makes sense. Tom Barr often points out that the healthiest plants are green, and show red because we treat them badly by dropping N or messing with nutrients, [acronym:3287f63f01="By the way"]btw[/acronym:3287f63f01].

[crazycat]

i'm actually going to stop the extra magnesium in my trace mix, since it seems to have raised my [acronym:bb03c3add5="General Hardness"]gh[/acronym:bb03c3add5] 5.5 degrees to 15.5dgh which is pretty hard--10 was better.

as for lace rock increasing phosphate, who told you and does anyone else know if this is true. i've been told by my knowledgable [acronym:bb03c3add5="Local Fish Store"]lfs[/acronym:bb03c3add5] (they REALLY are), that lace rock raises [acronym:bb03c3add5="power head or Measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions, depending on context"]PH[/acronym:bb03c3add5]--but since i have a controller on my pressurized system, i'm not worried. i would be worried about the [acronym:bb03c3add5="Phosphate"]po4[/acronym:bb03c3add5] though, if that's really true.

advisors: any info on lace rock raising [acronym:bb03c3add5="Phosphate"]po4[/acronym:bb03c3add5]?

[TankGirl]

My lace rock has not raised my [acronym:a80b18bda4="Phosphate"]PO4[/acronym:a80b18bda4] in my African tank, and I test this often due to tap levels on the high side. The [acronym:a80b18bda4="Phosphate"]PO4[/acronym:a80b18bda4] out of the tap gets used up readily by my plants in my community tank, but stays steady in the lightly planted African tank with lace rock. I have not seen any change since I added the lace rock six months ago.

In my case, which may or may not be relevant due to factors we may/may not be addressing, my T. roseafolia and P. stellata (more purple) really responded to raising [acronym:a80b18bda4="Carbon dioxide"]CO2[/acronym:a80b18bda4] levels along with slightly increasing iron. I maintain [acronym:a80b18bda4="Nitrate"]NO3[/acronym:a80b18bda4] at 15-20 as best I can throughout the week. This tank is 4.7 [acronym:a80b18bda4="Watts Per Gallon"]wpg[/acronym:a80b18bda4].

Interesting discussion!