can diatoms kill plants ?

[joannde]

I've gotten another bad case of diatoms - I guess those handmade ceramincs did increase the silica's (yuck).
Obviously cleaning the glass is easy. Cleaning the anubias is also fairly easy. The R. Lupens and the Red Rubin Sword are another matter ... will the diatoms block the light so much as to kill the plants ?

 

[Purrbox]

If the diatoms are so bad that they are smothering your plants, this could be a problem. You should be able to remove a good deal of it during your water change. If you need to remove more between water changes you could use a turkey baster for spot cleaning.

Another common option is to buy some Otos. These are great little algae eater that love diatoms. It can be problematic getting healthy ones that don't immediately die in your tank. The problem is that if they are starved of algae for any length of time, they lose the enzyme they need to digest food. If placed in a tank with other healthy otos they can get the enzyme back. For the best chance look for active otos with a nice round belly.

 

[joannde]

Thanks - I'll try to siphon some off (sure hope it works). Its so UGLY and the plants are really coming in nice. Hate to have another setback in this tank.
I have a bag of PhosGuard hanging over the HOB filter outlet - it supposed to be a silica sponge as well as absorbing phosphates, but my phosphate reading is off the charts and from what I understand the phosphates have to go before the silica can. Its gonna be awhile LOL
I guess the good news is that I dont have any algae issues

(ps - no ottos for me - tried that once in desperation, they didn't last - I ended up feeling doubly guilting; first for getting a fish to take care of a relatively short term issue and then because they died)

 

[fish_4_all]

I don't understand why you got diatoms from the ceramics? I know they eat the silica but once it is fired it should be so hard for them to get to that the diaotms shouldn't be an issue. I have a glazed ceramic cup for a cave in one tank for a cave and I have a plain unglazed cube in one tank and I dont have any problems with them. I think the only place I have a problem is in another tank that doesn't have any ceramics in it. Could they be something else?

I agree with ottos, they never live for me and I went through 3 of them. I hate to get a fish and have it die that fast.

 

[joannde]

I was assuming it was the ceramic glazes - but you might be right. Would recycling the tank on its own cause a new diatom bloom ?
I'm pretty sure its diatoms tho - brown, ugly, wipe off easily.

 

[fish_4_all]

Maybe, I switch mine out enough to prevent it or my BN eat the diatoms before they can be a problem. I do remember having some of what you are talking about when I had my planter right up against the side of the tank where nothing could get to it. But I cleaned it and it never had a really smell or chance to get to be too much. I will have to see what happens with my cave that is against the back wall. Maybe I will get some and then we can confirm the diatom cause. But I do have a bare cube in one tank and I have not seen any diatoms in the tank, but it does have a common pleco so who knows. Maybe some MTS will help with it or control it for you since ottos are not a choice. The tank has no light on it so all it gets is the stray light form the other tanks so maybe that is why it doesn't get the diatoms.

Do diatoms need light to thrive?

 

[joannde]

From what I understand newly set up tanks generally go through a "diatom phase" and once they clear up (once all the silicates are consumed) its generally gone for good. So in my case I either (a) never finished the diatom phase and its just now naturally returning after the deep clean I did when I planted the tank on June 30th or (b) the glazes added additional silicates which caused another diatom bloom.

Re light - a few resources I've read say that diatoms are caused by excess silicates or low light and they receed in high light !

As far as I can tell snails don't eat diatoms (which is too bad since I have 11 mystery snails !) - the platies and guppies seem to be nibbling on it but there could possibly be small amts of hair algae that is there true target

 

[fish_4_all]

Well, I guess the best advice then is to get something that will eat them. Some shrimp will, the otto will but that has been discussed. My BN seem to like them but they probably won't fit your tank.

I know I won't quit using the ceramics, maybe it is the ceramics, maybe it is the glazes, maybe it is a combination of the two. I will see what I can find out about using them and the materials they can leech. Maybe it is just a matter if firing them to a higher temeperare in the kiln, if you know much about that. I have been told that taking them to a cone 4 instead of an 04 will completely turn them into a non degrading material.

One other thing I have found that makes me even more suspicious about the firing temperature of our ceramics is the fact that ceramic rings are used all the time and I have never heard of them being the suspected cause of diatom outbreak.

I will definately be able to tell you if it is the ceramics causing the diatoms because I have some plain ceramics I plan to use for plant anchors and if it causes my plants to get the diatoms then I have my dad fire them a little hotter if he can, or maybe fire them twice to seal the silicats in the them. Maybe try an underglaze, an overglaze or maybe fire them twice with glazes to make sure they are sealed. My ceramic planter did have a long stream of bubbles that come out for more than a week so maybe it just wasn't sealed well enough. Lots of things could cause this. I will see if I can figure out which one it is.

 

[joannde]

Yeah, I don't think its the clay - I think its the glazes. Glazes are glass, glass is silica. Unfortuantely I only have a portable kiln that only fires to cone 1. I guess I could try that, but the glaze colors will change since they are rated cone 04.

Eventually the silica's will all be eaten by the diatoms, so its just a matter of waiting it out and I'm ok with that. I'll also keep using the PhosGuard to soak up some of the silicas. I was more concerned with knowing if the diatoms could cut enough light out to kill the plants, so I'll just keep rubbing the leaves clean right before PWCs (the dead diatoms themselves are another source of silica, since that's what their shells are made of).

Another plus of a bottomless tank - no gravel to get covered over and all I have to do is move the pots and other pieces to get to the bottom glass to clean that too.

 

[Purrbox]

The problem with the PhosGuard is that it is also eliminating the Phosphates. With no Phosphates your plants won't be able use any of the other nutrients, further crippling them.

 

[fish_4_all]

Ok, here is what I have been able to find. Shorter photo periods will greatly hinder the growth of diatoms. Turning your lights off for a period of time during the day seem to be one common solution. But you really have to completely eliminate light in that period, any ambient light will be enough for them to survive and possibly thrive. Kind of like a 2 hour black out every day. Letting your NO3 and PO4 bottom out seems to be another although that is going to harm your plants, or at least not be good for them. Circulation is another means of controlling them, tanks with dead spots or places were ornaments are against the glass blocking fish from getting to it and limiting circulation gives them a place to get a foot hold. Some articles also say that a peroxyde bath for your plantsa helped to stave it off until the bloom had run it's course.

Thats is what I have been able to find so far, will try to find more if I can. As for ceramics and using them in the aquarium, I may stop coating them if it is the glaze causing it. No need for it and if the undergalze doesn't have the silica then all the better.

 

[joannde]

Thanks Fish4All - great info You certainly did alot of research - I appreciate it. Great idea with the unglaze only - I may do that on the next pieces also.

Purrbox - my phosphates are off the charts, so they need to come down some anyway. Last reading was > 3.5, with nitrates of 20 - so my ratio is out of synch. But you're right - if the phosphates need to go to 0 before the silicas get asborbed then its probably not going to work the way I had hoped

 

[fish_4_all]

Couple more things. Another source says that silica can be naturally occuring in your tap water and build up over time causing brown algae to get a foot hold and dissolved protein can break down giving the algae enough food to thrive. How the dissolved protein does it I don't have a clue so I am not how reliable that one is.