CO2 question

[straick]

At what point does CO2 become a good idea? Is it based off of lighting? Or is it based off of fish compared to plant numbers and types? Or, is it something else all together?
I've read about how CO2 gets setup, but can't seem to find when it becomes a good idea as compared to a bad idea.
Thanks.

 

[ldaniel]

I have a 55 gallon community tank I added a c o 2 system, DIY, and within a few days I saw major plant grow without using any fertilizer. There are just a few plants in the tank with low light but the growth difference was something I had not expected.

 

[marchmaxima]

At what point does CO2 become a good idea? Is it based off of lighting? Or is it based off of fish compared to plant numbers and types? Or, is it something else all together?
I've read about how CO2 gets setup, but can't seem to find when it becomes a good idea as compared to a bad idea.
Thanks.

The point where CO2 becomes necessary is largely due to when the hobbyist wants to start keeping plants that require higher lighting.

Low light, Med-low and some Medium light plants don't need CO2 and you can grow these with low light and perhaps a little fertz. But when you start looking at plants that require more in light, you need to add CO2 as well.

Anything that requires 3+ watts per gallon would be considered higher light and CO2 is needed but depending on your setup even the trigger is arguable.

Of course many tanks with less lighting use CO2 as well, as plants really do tend to love it.

 

[mfdrookie516]

co2 and ferts give plants what they need to outcompete the algae. You can inject co2, but often without ferts, you'll still have algae growth. Its a combination of the two. That said, on any tank larger than 30 gallons, you want to go with a pressurized system. DIY systems are very very hard to keep consistent, and any time you inject co2, you need to keep it above 30ppm. Often, with DIY systems, you don't get your co2 that high. Any co2 above equilibrium (about 7ppm) and below 30ppm is just begging for algae. BBA thrives in fluctuating or co2 above equilibrium but below 30ppm.

 

[straick]

So, let's see if I have this all right for my tank. I have a Crypto wendtii and two different types of anachris(just got the anachris today) in a 10 gallon with a betta. Lighting is a 36 watt(can't remember the K rating) PL style lamp running about 12 hours a day(haven't bothered to reset the timer since I setup the new lamp), and add Flourish twice a week(.5ml at a time, with one of them being done right after my weekly PWC).
Now, if I were to want maximum growth I could add some DIY CO2, or I could up the surface agitation a little to up the CO2 that from the air, and gain a little bit of growth that way.
Drawback is that if I don't do the CO2 properly, then I could end up with a lot of algae to deal with.
Does that about sum it up?

 

[mfdrookie516]

Sounds like you've got it

 

[straick]

I've done CO2 production with yeast for other stuff before, and I assume it's about the same here. 2 liter soda bottle with your yeast/sugar mix, tubing runs into a second bottle(overflow catch tank, learned it the hard way a while back), and a line from that one runs to the tank.
I'm also pretty sure that I could use a small pump with an airline running into the outlet to basically disolve the CO2(similair idea to a carburetor, only gas into liquid instead of liquid into gas)
Now on a DIY setup like that, how do you regulate the level of CO2?
I've actually built a similair setup to add chlorine into my parents pool when I was younger, and regulated it by using a regulator and adjusting the gas pressure.

 

[mfdrookie516]

That's the problem with DIY setups... its very hard to control. too little is often the end result, but too much could be a problem too.

 

[jetajockey]

That's why I quit using diy co2. I just use glutaraldehyde now.

All plants can benefit from added co2 assuming there is enough light and ferts to balance things out. There isn't a 'wpg' standard as to what does and what doesn't, but if you are having constant algae issues due to lighting then you can bet that ferts/co2 will help get things in check.

 

[ldaniel]

Will that work with "red slime" or hair algae?

 

[mfdrookie516]

hair algae is a sign of excess micro nutrients (I'm pretty sure.. maybe its macro). So, no. red slime? I haven't ever heard of red slime in fw... i've seen blue green, which from what i've read can only be cured with antibiotics.

 

[ldaniel]

I am having an issue with, I assume is, hair algae. I am on day two of the antibiotic treatment. I will upload pics tomorrow when I get the computer back online.

 

[mfdrookie516]

aintibiotics wont help with hair algae... thats just a sign of a nutrient imbalance, generally too much of something, but can be from not enough of something. Are you dosing ferts?

 

[ldaniel]

I was. Used the last dose of liquid ferts that I had today. I was going to leave it alone for a few days minus finishing the med treatments.

 

[straick]

What happens if you inject too much CO2?

 

[mfdrookie516]

I was. Used the last dose of liquid ferts that I had today. I was going to leave it alone for a few days minus finishing the med treatments.

I'd bet your issue stems from dosing ferts. Try without for a few weeks and see if it doesn't help

What happens if you inject too much CO2?

Your fish will die. It takes a lot, but you really don't want to go over 40ppm

 

[ldaniel]

As the tank stands now I'm running two 1500ml bottles plumb into an air stone then into a diffuser. Fish seem to do fine. Most of what I have are air breathes. African dwarf frogs (2), betta, and a dwarf groumi. In addition to those I have about 15 ghost shrimp and one mystery snail.
I have seem tremendous growth from my plants in the past month. Thus the fert dosing. But again I will hold off for a while and see how everything plays out on its own.

 

[jetajockey]

I've gotten hair algae from too much light also.

 

[straick]

Have a DIY CO2 setup done now. Using a modified subemersible pump(hole with a airline connector in the outlet) and funnel to inject the CO2. The thing will actually suck air into the tank if I leave the air line to it laying outside the tank(done into about 2 inches of water where the airline hooks to the pump outlet).
Homemade bubble counter averages about 1 bubble a second, and after adding some brand new, soap and cleaner free scubby pads(coarse green things) to the funnel, I don't even see any tiny bubble escaping. I did with just the funnel empty, but not with the pads. Just realized that the thing also acts like a second filter, and I can pull the pads to clean them when I do PWC's.
Going to be getting a drop checker, because there is no way I can be at almost 70 ppm of CO2(that's going by the pH/KH charts).
Is it normal to not see any bubbles from the CO2 injection system?

 

[ldaniel]

after reading this article, http://netclub.athiel.com/cyano/cyanos2.htm , I went ahead and tested the dissolved organic levels with in my tank. after testing I found that I had about 3 ppm in the tank. however, the largest difference between this test and the rest that I have run is that the ph was a bit higher than it has been in the past.
on average my ph has been running about 6.8. after testing today the ph was at 7.6 any advice as to how the ph rose with that amount of dissolved organics ?