Couple of questions

[Floyd R Turbo]

Hoping I could get some input and get some questions answered. I have been on and off with aquariums for about 20 years. Recently got into it again and decided to go with some live plants. Then I got more. Then some died. Then I got more and upgraded my lighting and got more plants. I decided I like the look of the planted tank, now I'm having to learn a lot more. Check out the 55 under my tank pictures.

First thing, I have had a significant amount of algae growth, most of which is on the back glass, and I leave that for the mollies, platies, and swords, they do a pretty good job of keeping it in control. I clean the rest of the glass every 2-3 weeks. The algae seems to be brown and bright green in color, in patches, and started to get some bright green 'sprigs' in some places just recently after I upgraded from 30W of T8 lighting to 64W, so if I follow the 'update on the WPG rule' thinking, I'm at the medium light level, or the 'old' 2 WPG.

This pic is under the old lighting. You can see the blanket of algae. It's not this growth that concerns me, but rather that it seems to be coating my swords and vallisneria like this:

and this

And it seems the only way to get rid of it is to trim the leaves. I got an SAE after just happening to be at the right LFS when they got them, and he devours the leftover stuff on the back glass, but have yet to see if he makes a dent on the plants. Also have a rainbow shark who seems to much on the stuff.

I'm guessing the problem is diatoms, which I just read about in a few places and don't really know that much about them, except it has something to do with silicon in the water and it's pretty much impossible to control. I do get a whiteish haze on the inside of the glass which wpies off with my magnetic glass cleaner, I'm assuming that's the starting stages of growth.

So here's my 'tank profile' (I read I'm supposed to supply this info)

First off, I have a 10g fry tank and due to high tap pH, I use the 55 water for water changes, usually 3 gallons a day, so I'm doing a minimum daily 6% water changes on the 55 (50G effective water).

-55 gallon, fresh, I did have 1 tsp/gal aquarium salt but I've been reducing that through water changes (it was a holistic treatment) it's probably down to 5 or 6 teaspoons total.
-Tank has been setup for almost 2 months, jump started the cycle with a bag of dirty sponge water from LFS, I have not seen Ammonia or Nitrites since week 2 (which was 1/12/9)
-I have 2 4' T8 32W Phillips Natural tri-chromatic 5000K for 64W T8 or equivalent 86W of T12 lighting
-I do not use CO2
-I do not have a phosphate test kit
-pH stabilizes at around 7.2
-Ammonia 0
-Nitrites 0
-Nitrates 10, maybe 15
-KH stays around 3
-GH was at 7 3 weeks ago, now at 3 due to water change frequency (tap GH is 0, KH is 4)
-I just started using Flourish 2 times a week, and I refrigerate it
-I use Prime becuase you hardly use any (awesome)
-tank gets direct sunlight for maybe an hour in the early morning, on side wall in my study and is about 6 feet from window, sun rises and shines right on the tank

Fish stock
5 Platies
3 Mollies
3 Swordtails
2 Guppies
2 Barbs
1 Gouramie
2 Danios
5 Neons
1 Black skirt tetra
1 Red eye tetra
1 Rainbow shark
1 Scissortail rasbora
1 Siamese Algae Eater

2 Amazon Swords
1 Echinodorus Bleheri
1 Echinodorus Rose (I believe)
4 Vallisneria nana (really 3 all together, one is a daughter that I haven't split yet)
2 Wisteria
Bunch of Hornwort
3 Mondo Grass (which I guess isn't even an aquatic plant? Oh well)

You can look at my pics and tell me if I have misidentified any plants. Some pics are older however. The Mondo grass was just added and the anacharis & cabomba are gone.

The algae affecting the plants seems to be the green swords and the vallisneria. Any thoughts?

Also, I'm using a UGF, I know, it's old school, but I never knew they were 'outdated' and would probably still use it if I wasn't going planted.

EDIT: Here are some better pics. Sorry they're fuzzy. I suck at pictures.

 

[joy13]

I was going to tell you to get some excel but don't use it if you have vals or anacharis because they can melt. CO2 is the only thing I can think of to help keep the algae under control. Your tank is new so the diatom algae will probably disappear on its own, mine always does.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I got rid of the anacharis. I like the vals. Check out the additional pics I just posted. Is this what diatom based algae looks like, and how long until it goes away?

I guess I don't get the CO2-algae connection. Doesn't algae, like any plant life, use CO2 during the day also? Wouldn't it just help it grow?

Also, is there a way to keep a planted tank and NOT use CO2? Because I just don't want to mess with it. Just curious

 

[fort384]

sunlight + slow growers & broad leafed plants = lots of algae.

Can you add a window covering to shade the tank in the morning? I think that could help.

As far as CO2, when you get it up above 25+ppm in your water, it discourages algae growth. This is because it will cause your plants to kick into high gear, so to speak, and they will soak up the extra nutrients in the tank, essentially starving the algae. Algae, being a simpler organism, can capitalize on any nutrient imbalance in the tank, and still grow/multiply when 1 of the building blocks (carbon provided by Co2) required by the more complex plants is not in abundance.

You can def run a tank without CO2... but I think the increased growth/color/vitality of your plants that it would bring are worth the cost. As far as messing with it, if you invested in a pressurized system, it is almost 0 maintenance. You set it up and forget it. I haven't touched mine (aside from adding a manifold to split it to my second tank) since I set it up. A 5lb tank can last 6 months depending on the size aquarium you have.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Do you have fish in your tank? According to this http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm "CO2 concentrations over 25ppm can be harmful to the inhabitants of your tank"

Can you point me in the right direction for a pressurized system? What's the startup cost? I'm assuming this mean just getting CO2 cartridges and plugging them into a cracker valve that slowly bleeds it out via a diffuser?

 

[timwag2001]

CO2 Systems & Accessories: Planted Aquarium C02 Reactors, Diffusers, Valves and Kits
here is two. one is auto and one is semi auto. prob way more than i will ever need but i really like the fully auto one. i'm gonna get it in a month or two.

 

[fort384]

Do you have fish in your tank? According to this http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm "CO2 concentrations over 25ppm can be harmful to the inhabitants of your tank"

Can you point me in the right direction for a pressurized system? What's the startup cost? I'm assuming this mean just getting CO2 cartridges and plugging them into a cracker valve that slowly bleeds it out via a diffuser?

There are differing opinions about what level of CO2 is dangerous to fish. I have been running my tank above 30ppm since I started CO2 (even my DIY system kept it above 30). I have seen no adverse effect on my fish. CO2 does not displace oxygen in the water, which is a common misconception. I think you would have to get up above 75-100ppm CO2 before you would notice any real danger to your fish. I have accidentally gone over 100 before, and only then did I see fish gasping at the surface to exchange oxygen.

As far as which system, there are several options. If you want to go pressurized, the basic things you will need are:

1. CO2 Tank (~$60-140 depending on size)
2. Regulator ($80-140)
3. selenoid
4. Needlevalve
5. Some method to diffuse the CO2 into your water

I recommend the Milwaukee MA957 regulator, as it comes as a packaged deal with a selenoid, bubble counter, and needlevalve. You can pick 1 up on ebaY for ~$100. This is the regulator I use, and it works great. It was recommended to me on this site when I was looking to buy. A lot of other forum members have it and Ithink the consensus is it is a good product. Plus, you know you will be able to get support for it here because so many have experience with it.

To control it, you can just plug the selenoid into a timer that turns it on or off, or you can invest in a pH controller (~$100-200 depending on which one you get) that will turn the system on or off at a specific pH, so you CO2 levels are constantly and consistently in a very tight range. This is the method I use, and it really works great, but is not necessary.

 

[Purrbox]

The article on Chuck Gadd's site was written several years ago when the use of CO2 in planted aquariums was much newer and not as well understood. It's very common practice to run with CO2 levels above 30ppm these days. Further experimentation has shown that most fish are fine with higher levels of CO2 as long as you don't exceed 100ppm.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

The article on Chuck Gadd's site was written several years ago when the use of CO2 in planted aquariums was much newer and not as well understood. It's very common practice to run with CO2 levels above 30ppm these days. Further experimentation has shown that most fish are fine with higher levels of CO2 as long as you don't exceed 100ppm.

Good to know. With CO2 that high, would I just need to point my powerhead to the surface to get some chop to keep the O2 up enough for the fish? Then at night, would it be a good idea to insert the air tube on the PH inlet since the plants would suck out the O2 also?

PHOSPHATE update: I got a test kit, and it's literally off the chart. I found out from the LFS that the tap water here tests BLACK on the Hagen kit. 5ppm is deep blue, which is what my tank water is at right now. The said something at the LFS about Phos Kill (?) that they had to add to their 600G SW show tank after a water change because the phosphates were so high.

Any suggestions on that one? They also had a de-ionizer there for $60, but it said it was good for 25-125g depending on water quality. Is there any place to get them cheaper? Haven't checked BigAls yet I guess...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ok, I tested our tap and RO water, both showed up with 0 phosphate. Then I read that you're supposed to test de-chlorinated tap water. So I filled up a quart container, put a couple drops of Prime in it, and it still tested 0. We're on the same municipal system as the LFS and they said it was off the chart, so it must have been a short lived spike? Or am I testing this wrong? Maybe I'll let a bucket sit out for a few days and test that...

 

[Purrbox]

I'd recommend that you get a copy of the water report for your area. Could be something that was either temporary or in their pipes.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm guessing it's temporary. Purrbox I noticed you're from Iowa too, I'm in West Des Moines, where are you at? One of the LFS's lost an entire discus tank a month or so ago when they did a PWC and no one tested the water before the change - the ammonia was over 3 ppm and pH at 9+ was toxic, they never stood a chance. Even their RO/DI water was toxic, that's how bad it was. I have never seen it as bad out of the tap as the LFS, but the pH is always off the chart 9+

 

[Purrbox]

That definately sounds like a temporary problem where something happened either to the source water or the way the treatment plant was treating it. I've heard of similar problems have occurred with temporary spikes in Ammonia levels from other people.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So I've been fighting a losing battle on the algae issue, what I've basically discovered is that the city municipal water phosphate levels go up and down drastically from day to day.

What is the best way to remove the phosphates? I read that Phos Zorb from API removes them and silicates, but one pouch is only good for 50 gallons/8 weeks and it doesn't say the ppm it removes in total. RO/DI is the only other way I know of, but then don't you have to add back in trace chemicals for the fish? Is there any other way? Any DIY ideas?

 

[Purrbox]

What highs and lows are you seeing in the phosphate levels? What algae are you dealing with?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Highest Hagen test kit goes to is 5.0. Tank tests 5.0 every time. Might bring to LFS they have API tests to 10. They didn't have the API kit when I was there (out of stock). Lowest my tap & RO tested 0, actually I have never seen any phos in tap, but I guess it's a timing thing, also the Hagen kit says if you want to test your tap water, test dechlorinated tap water. I filled up a quart jar and put a very little bit of prime and it still tested 0, so my next step is to let some sit for 48 hours and test. I might have to take samples every couple hours and do a series of tests to find out if it's intermittent or not.

Also, I might take my wood out into some 48hr aged phos free water and let it soak and then test that, LFS suggested it might be the wood. Could be the rock also, when I cleaned recently I took it out and out of the tank light, it was solid black with algae that scrubbed off relatively easily. It could be the source also

 

[Purrbox]

You can also dilute your sample 50/50 with RO water, which would double the range of your kit although the results would be less precise.