CSM+B dosing - how much?

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evercl92

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I've been using CSM+B for a while now, and have been getting pretty good plant growth. I'm wondering if I'm under-dosing though. I'm running 390wt of CF lighting, CO2 injection @ 3 b/s. I dose nitrates as needed to maintain 20-30ppm, 1/2 tsp K2SO4 2x/wk, and 1/2 tsp (dry) CSM+B 2x/wk. I'm just now getting into dosing phos, about 5ml fleets every other week. The tank is a 120gal, pic below. I read the dosing guide, and it saying to get Fe levels to 1.0ppm, but testing my tank consistently reads 1.0ppm. Is this an adequate amount of CSM+B ? I don't see any signs of iron deficiency though. I just wonder if I'm not dosing enough of other micros to give my plants their full potential?
 
I assume you had a typo there, since you're complianing that you're consistantly hitting your goal number?

My test kit has a short waiting time for free iron, and a long waiting time to see chleated iron. See if your test kit has alternate directions like that. The iron binds so fast to other particles in the water, you're probably not going to see any free iron, no matter how much you dose. Just do the math on the correct dose to get up to 1 ppm, and trust that it's right.

You can always boost the dose and observe for a month, and then decrease the dose and observe for a month and see if it makes a diffrence.
 
Well this is a good question... I was just wondering yesterday as I am running low on Flourish and have CSM+B in the closet... If I were to dry dose, how much do you put in? From evercl92's dosing schedule i could maybe out 1/4 tsp x2 or x3 a week for a 72g? Not sure how much CSM+B it takes in 10g of water to attain an optimal level...
 
Not really a typo. The 1.0ppm "goal" isn't mine, but that's what's on Greg Watson's site as a guide for how much to dose. My test kit has a 30 min wait time for chelated iron, yet I get the darkest color (1.0 ppm) result in about 90 secs. Iron (supposedly) isn't in shortage then.

I'm wondering if I would see better results by dosing more? I was kinda wondering what dosage(s) others used for their respective tanks, so I know if I'm dosing enough (since the chelated-iron level isn't helping). 1/2 tsp 2x a week for 120gal just seems low to me I guess, especially when I have alot of plant mass...

 
I am confused.

I keep finding references to a target of .1 ppm Fe. On Gregwatson.com and other places.

Am I missing something?
 
Generally if you're going by test kits, you go for the lowest measureable amount. If your test kit goes down to .1, that's fine.
 
Don't bother they are not very reliable at the levels we test, and the hobby grade kits are not that good anyway. Just dose enough trace mix to get to the iron level you are looking for. If you need more iron the plants will tell you.
 
Well, I am still not clear on how much iron is in CSM+B. A reference I found says it is 6.53% FE, but I am having a brain cramp try to figure out how to boil that down to a useful number to approximate dry dosing. I really don't want to premix stuff much anymore...

**EDIT**

Does this sound right?

mg/L = ppm

1 gram of CSM+B = 1000mg

6.53% of 1000 = 65.3ppm of FE per L of water

So, if I have ~68 gallons of water in a 72 gallon tank, we will call that 250 liters.

Every gram of CSM+B will add 65.3/250, or .26ppm of FE. If target is .1, then I should add a bit less than 500mg (or less than .5g) of CSM+B...

Right?
 
Purrbox is my new best friend!

I found that calculator the other night and could not find it again for the life of me.
 
Thanks for the link purrbox. It doesn't have a function for dry dosing, but as long as you put the same mL in your solution as you are going to dose (1 works), then it works and validates my math. I guess I could premix the stuff (I always get grains of something that won't dissolve in the mix)

IMO it is easier just to use the 65.3ppm of FE per L rule and do the math out on your tank if you are going to dry dose. Of course as I am doing the math, you probably want a tank around 100 gallons to achieve a reasonable measurement.

I am thinking of trying Tropica's Master Grow...

evercl92 - What are you trying to fix, change or avoid? You mention that you wonder if dosing more FE would help achieve better results, but you didn't mention what results you are not currently happy with. Do your plants look stunted?

Based on Purrbox's link, 1/2 tsp of CSM+B is roughly 2267mg. Then just do the math:

6.53% * 2267 = 148mg of FE you are dosing with each 1/2 tsp. So then convert you tank to liters... let's call your tank 140 gallons (taking out gravel, wood, ect). So 140g = 530l.

148/530 = .2792ppm that you are putting in your tank twice a week.

If your tests are correct and you have a level at or over 1.0, then depending on what you read, you are any where from 10x to 2x over the recommended level of FE in your tank.

The only thing to look at would be your plant uptake rate, in terms of how often and how much to dose. Isn't 1.0 the highest measurement on most FE test kits (or just mine)? If so, you may have a much higher level... ? I am not sure if there are new problems you find with excess FE, but if so, that may be part of the problem you are seeing... ?

A final thought. Based on what I have been gathering on planted tanks, limiting factors in plant growth are roughly in this order: lighting, CO2, NO3, PO4, Trace, K+ .... If you are seeing algae or plant growth problems you would need to deal with each barrier in order...

FWIW
 
I really don't see an issue with the plant growth itself. I just see 1/2 tsp 2x/wk as very little for a tank that size. Current plant growth is pretty good, I just wonder if it would be better with more dosing?

The only real issue I'm having right now is GDA on the glass. I can't seem to keep it clean for more than about 3 days, then the glass gets covered again. I tried draining 1/2 of the tank, then wiping with a paper towel. I added more phos and that didn't seem to help. More CO2, no change. I think I'm going to start a 4 day blackout, unless anyone else has a better idea.. ?
 
If it's GDA (green dust algae) then you just need to let it run through its life cycle for a few weeks before wiping it off the glass. Shouldn't come back once its life cycle is complete.

If it's GSA (green spot algae - looks like GDA but really hard to remove) then increased Phosphate dosing should help.
 
It's definitely green dust alage. It 'powders' when I wipe it, and is easy to remove. I tried waiting 2wks before, didn't seem to help. Maybe I didn't wait long enough?
 
I'm thinking that it was closer to a month that you need to wait, but I'm not completely sure. It's one of the few algaes that I haven't had to deal with yet, so I'm not quite as familiar on how to deal with it.
 
As you increase CO2, increase fert input and wait out the GDA. I agree you should increase trace dosing anyway, fwiw. If your tank is humming smoothly save for GDA, blackout will only stunt your progress. Your focussing on deficiency is smarter.
 
Purrbox,

Thanks from me as well for the calculator. I've been dosing what was recommended from a long time ago, but recently wondered if I was dosing too little. I dose ~1/4 tsp after my 50% PWC, then 1/16th-1/32nd tsp every other day. My tank is 20gallons, so that dose after the water change puts about 1ppm in the tank, and those additional doses keep the level above 0.1ppm.

I've been getting quite a bit of what I would consider a fuzz/hair algae. Not huge strands, but maybe 1/4-1". They are not green, looks almost transparent, and really makes a mess of my christmas moss. I've read this is "caused" by high iron, but I've also heard from several people (including Tom Barr) that high iron like other high fert dosing does not cause algae. I'm wondering if there is something else deficient in the tank...
 
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