Cycling tank using plants only? Need help ....

[melissa1977]

I don't know what's happening with my tank.

Here is a short story;

20 G long tank's, set up on august 1st brackish no fish yet !!

August 1
Tank set up (gravel 2-3 inch + Aqualit (substrate) all this for plants.)
I ve filled up my tank with dechlorinate water
Added recommended quantity of Cycle (bacteria)
Added a little bit of aquarium salt (changed my mind later and decided to do cycle with freshwater since most of the fish I want are sold in LFS in freshwater instead of brackish and I should use Marine salt instead of aquarium salt !!!(i will increase salt later... (as a result of this I did on aug 6 a water change to lower salt level))

August 4
28 degree celsius
PH7.2
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
GH 18 (brackish environment, volcanic rock as decor)
1,004 salt level
Added plants (Dwarf bacopa, Java fern and java moss)
Added plant grow (liquid iron supplement for plants)
Added more Cycle (bacteria)

August 6
25 % water change to lower salt level and GH

August 7
28 degree celsius
PH7.4
Ammonia 0.15
Nitrite 0.15
GH 13
salt level 1,003
Added more dwarf bacopa

August 10
I ve only checked ammonia level and is was still at 0.15

August 11
29 degre celsius
PH7.4
Ammonia 0.15
:? Nitrite 0.5 :?
GH 13
Salt level 1.003

What happened on august 11 ???
How come their is so much nitrite and no apparent ammonia...
Could it be because of plants decaying producing ammonia, and is that enough to fishless cycle the tank without using pure ammonia??

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

 

[LittlePuff]

I don't think plants alone will cycle a tank. You need a source of ammonia. What little you did get, probably came from your tap.

Kim

 

[melissa1977]

But could the plants decaying create a source of ammonia ??

 

[TankGirl]

Plants decaying is not going to produce the ammonia required to cycle a tank. If you have healthy, growing plants you will not see any ammonia at all, as they will consume it. If you have good lighting and the plants are really growing, you can cycle the tank with fish, and the fish won't suffer with toxic levels of ammonia or nitrite as in a typical fishy cycle.

However, your plants have to be doing well first. Here is a link to a planted tank cycle - http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm

Otherwise you need a source of ammonia, either with straight household ammonia or with fish.

 

[melissa1977]

Thanks TankGirl !!

That article really gave me almost all the answers I was looking for !!

But just one question remains unanswered.
Where does the nitrite i see comes from ??
I ve checked tap water and im reading 0 nitrite ...

 

[TankGirl]

If you don't mind I am going to move this over to the Planted forum where you can get some info from people who have done this. Be sure and read Rex's FAQ also.

 

[melissa1977]

ok good
: )

 

[William]

I don't prescribe to the plants reducing ammonia/helping cycle.

Even if there are facts/proof.


Why? Caise I made the mistake of putting plants in a tank that had to cycle, and the plants decayed into nothingness from high ammonia and low 'trates.

 

[TankGirl]

Are you sure that is the reason they decayed? You need good light, CO2 and substrate ferts for this to work properly, I think.

I have never tried this myself, so I am certainly no expert on it, but it is something I am interested in doing, and like to hear about other experiences.

 

[Guest]

I have set up several tanks, ranging from 2 wpg with no CO2 to 4+ wpg CO2 injected tanks. Not once I have seen a trace of ammonia showing up. But note that this doesn't work well with slow growing plants. You MUST use fast growing plants.

 

[melissa1977]

Why am I already seeing nitrate ?? :?

 

[Guest]

The only way you can see nitrate is if you have a cycle going on. Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate.

Either your plant load is not great enough for the fish load or you did not use enough fast growing plants or you are lacking other nutrients that would allow the plants to utilize the ammonia before it begins the cycle. Those nutrients could include any or all of the following: Light, CO2, Phosphates, Iron, Trace minerals. A planted tank is about balance. If it's out of balance then you have problems galore. If it's in balance you are pretty much just trimming plants and cleaning the green spot algae off the glass.

 

[Guest]

Also you might need to use saltwater test kits since your tank is a brackish tank. Using the wrong test kits can cause a lot of false readings.

Looking at your time line I note that you first noticed nitrite in the tank when it was seven days old. This seems pretty quick to see nitrite. Before I got into planted tanks I had fish tanks. And it seemed that I never saw nitrite for at least 10-14 days.

 

[TankGirl]

Also check your tap water for nitrate - it is present in some water systems.

 

[melissa1977]

actually Rex I don't even have fishes yet in my tank. That's what makes it so weird.

I really need all the help I could get, LFS don't know nothing about planted tank of fishless cycling ...

Im starting to get discouraged... I really want to find out what could be going wrong.

The plants in my aquarium as of now are; dwarf bacopa, java fern and jave moss in a 20 G high tank. The tank is planted at about 35 % now and im planning on adding more tonight, i will add some Pygmy Chain Swordplant to bring up my % of plants to about 50 %. Are those fast growing plants ?? Light is 2.1 w per gallon, no Co2 added. I ve added some plant grow (liquid iron supplement) to the water and there is no nitrite in my tap water.

Im using freshwater test kit for now since the salinity level is only at 1.003... That was obtained by using aquarium salt so I guess freshwater kit is still good right ??

Should I keep adding more plants or is there something really wrong ??
Should I do water change ?

Is it possible that nitrite could be there because the plants are converting part of the ammonia produce from decaying leaves of my plants and that the rest of the ammonia is converted to nitrite by bacteria in my water... And that the bacteria that break down nitrite into nitrate are not present yet in my water ??

Could I do a fishless cycle in a planted tank using a shrimp in the conditions I have now in my tank or is it useless??

Im not going to add fish until ammonia and nitrite level are at 0...
8O Please help me ... I need some expert help...

 

[melissa1977]

I fond some new informations...

On several diagrams about aquarium cycle I found out that nitrite could come from toxic gases released from the gravel... I guess they are talking about anareobics bacteria stock in small air chambers in the substrats.

The nitrite started going up when i ve planted my bacopa. I had to move the substrat in order to make place for the plants. Maby then Ive freed up some gas that was stuck in the substrat and by doing so, released some nitrate in my tank.

I hope my explanation make sense !!
What do you guys think ??

 

[Guest]

You would only see nitrite from the gravel in a very old dirty tank.

So far none of the plants you are are fast growers. See my FAQ for a list of suggested plants.