Do I NEED Ferts right away?

[Scottyhorse]

Hi, I am buying a 25 gal tank tomorrow, and I am using 24 pounds of CaribSea FloraMax Planted Aquarium Substrate.
I am going to be setting up a DIY co2 with 2 2Liter bottles as the generators, and one as a gas separator. And I will have dual Coralife T5 light fixtures 6700k. My question is, with all of this, do I need to start doesing ferts right away? I have $175 in Christmas money, and I am going to use all of it up for everything besides the Ferts. Could they wait about a month until I get $30 in allowance money to buy some Dry Ferts?

Thanks!! I am not going to be growing demanding plants, here is what I am getting:

Valls
Bacopa Australis
Mexican Oak Leaf
MoneyWort
Wisteria
Four Leaf Clover
Dwarf Baby Tears.

My only worry is that (because I am going to have 80% coverage) since I will have so many plants, they will take all the nutrients and die. Which would suck.

So will I and the plants be okay?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Well not sure about the rest, but dwarf baby tears (HC) is pretty high demanding. Did you get all those plants already? Maybe you can start things of with just a hardscape and layout the substrate until you have your allowance in hand? You can also just start off with the HC and plant that using the DSM (dry start method) and allow it to carpet in first and establish a decent root system before flooding the tank...

 

[Scottyhorse]

Well not sure about the rest, but dwarf baby tears (HC) is pretty high demanding. Did you get all those plants already? Maybe you can start things of with just a hardscape and layout the substrate until you have your allowance in hand? You can also just start off with the HC and plant that using the DSM (dry start method) and allow it to carpet in first and establish a decent root system before flooding the tank...

No, I don't have the plants yet, but I will be ordering them tonight. The reason I want plants now is because I am going to be doing a silent cycle with the plants.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Do you have other established tank(s)? You can cycle a tank fast by seeding it with well seasoned media from an established tank. I think the Floramax is a great substrate... I use it in 3 of my tanks. But I doubt its ability to be a nutrient rich-enough substrate to sustain a lot of plants straight out of the bag. It has a high CEC characteristic that allows it to absorb nutrients overtime.. so in a new tank without supplementing with good liquid ferts or root tabs, makes me wonder if the trace elements in FM will be enough with the lighting you have to not show any deficiencies and give the plants enough nutrients to get rooted and established?? It might.. I just haven't tried it. I did see a guy get a carpet of HC with It using DSM.. So that gives me some hope for you. HC really thrives on co2 so it's important to get that running sufficiently.

In my new tanks, when I use that substrate, I've been embedding flourish tabs throughout to give it that extra boost... I've experienced goods results. Perhaps someone here can chime in on those plants you're getting, your plan, and let you know if it's cool to start out for a month without ferts in the mix?

 

[Scottyhorse]

Do you have other established tank(s)? You can cycle a tank fast by seeding it with well seasoned media from an established tank. I think the Floramax is a great substrate... I use it in 3 of my tanks. But I doubt its ability to be a nutrient rich-enough substrate to sustain a lot of plants straight out of the bag. It has a high CEC characteristic that allows it to absorb nutrients overtime.. so in a new tank without supplementing with good liquid ferts or root tabs, makes me wonder if the trace elements in FM will be enough with the lighting you have to not show any deficiencies and give the plants enough nutrients to get rooted and established?? It might.. I just haven't tried it. I did see a guy get a carpet of HC with It using DSM.. So that gives me some hope for you. HC really thrives on co2 so it's important to get that running sufficiently.

In my new tanks, when I use that substrate, I've been embedding flourish tabs throughout to give it that extra boost... I've experienced goods results. Perhaps someone here can chime in on those plants you're getting, your plan, and let you know if it's cool to start out for a month without ferts in the mix?

I do have one other tank, it's a 2 gal shrimp tank. So I really don't know if it is cycled. That one is pretty low tech and low maintenance, but I could take a handful of that out and put it in there. It's been going for about 3 months old, maybe a little older.

For the HC, I don't mind if it doesn't carpet right away, I just don't want the plants to die.....

What's DSM?

Do you think adding fish food would help until I get Ferts?

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Fish food isn't the same as fertilizer at all. I think a DSM (dry start method) is a great idea. Google it for more info but you basically just add the substrate and only enough water to just reach the top of the sand. Then you plant your plants and cover the top of your tank with plastic wrap to keep everything moist and add the lights for about 10 hours a day. The plants can be sprayed down daily with water. They will grow faster like this in most cases. When you get your ferts in you can fill the tank, fertilize and start the filter and heater. Then just cycle as normal.

 

[bud29]

I do have one other tank, it's a 2 gal shrimp tank. So I really don't know if it is cycled. That one is pretty low tech and low maintenance, but I could take a handful of that out and put it in there. It's been going for about 3 months old, maybe a little older.

For the HC, I don't mind if it doesn't carpet right away, I just don't want the plants to die.....

What's DSM?

Do you think adding fish food would help until I get Ferts?

DSM=Dry Start Method. I think adding fish food would just cause an ammonia spike.

Doing it DSM is very fun! Do it!

 

[Scottyhorse]

DSM=Dry Start Method. I think adding fish food would just cause an ammonia spike.

Doing it DSM is very fun! Do it!

What is DSM? How do you do it anyways? If it's fun, i'll do it!

 

[Scottyhorse]

Fish food isn't the same as fertilizer at all. I think a DSM (dry start method) is a great idea. Google it for more info but you basically just add the substrate and only enough water to just reach the top of the sand. Then you plant your plants and cover the top of your tank with plastic wrap to keep everything moist and add the lights for about 10 hours a day. The plants can be sprayed down daily with water. They will grow faster like this in most cases. When you get your ferts in you can fill the tank, fertilize and start the filter and heater. Then just cycle as normal.

Hmm, that makes sense..., but I don't want to wait! Maybe I can have my mom give me my allowance for January early, and then I can do a Silent Cycle.... Hmm

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Yeah a lot of folks get a good carpet of HC using DSM because there's a lot of available co2 in the atmosphere. Plus, I've read that HC is actually a terrestrial plant in nature so it will love to grow via the DSM. There's a bunch of threads on The Planted Tank forums of DSM. I only suggested it because you can start off slow like this (actually fast in terms of HC growth) to get the carpet growing in while you save your allowance money for other things you'll need (i.e. ferts). Just plan ahead and do things in phases and you'll have a complete tank before you know it. Also, if you try planting the HC submerged, it's sometimes a pain because the HC is a buoyant plant and wants to just float--especially in a light substrate like EC and Floramax. Going DSM will allow some time for it to get well rooted so when you flood the tank it won't all just start floating.

There's many more examples online... just google it. But here's a couple...

This guy is actually using Floramax (as I mentioned earlier) and got the HC to carpet through DSM.
Oscarfish.com

Aqua_Chem... a Mod here on AA showed some examples of his HC and S. Repens growing in DSM... looks really healthy!
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/best-carpeting-plant-for-my-tank-238626.html

 

[Scottyhorse]

Yeah a lot of folks get a good carpet of HC using DSM because there's a lot of available co2 in the atmosphere. Plus, I've read that HC is actually a terrestrial plant in nature so it will love to grow via the DSM. There's a bunch of threads on The Planted Tank forums of DSM. I only suggested it because you can start off slow like this (actually fast in terms of HC growth) to get the carpet growing in while you save your allowance money for other things you'll need (i.e. ferts). Just plan ahead and do things in phases and you'll have a complete tank before you know it. Also, if you try planting the HC submerged, it's sometimes a pain because the HC is a buoyant plant and wants to just float--especially in a light substrate like EC and Floramax. Going DSM will allow some time for it to get well rooted so when you flood the tank it won't all just start floating.

There's many more examples online... just google it. But here's a couple...

This guy is actually using Floramax (as I mentioned earlier) and got the HC to carpet through DSM.
Oscarfish.com

Aqua_Chem... a Mod here on AA showed some examples of his HC and S. Repens growing in DSM... looks really healthy!
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/best-carpeting-plant-for-my-tank-238626.html

Thanks..... How long do you think this would take? I have been waiting to do this since before October, so I really don't want to wait too much longer.

Oh, and about me asking my mom for allowance in advance, she just said I spend too much time on my aquarium stuff, so I don't want to risk it

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I haven't done a DSM before. However, from what I've seen in the forums, I believe it doesn't take that long at all. HC grows faster immersed rather than submersed. It would of course take longer, if you want it to fully carpet, which you've mentioned you don't care to do.. but I believe you can at least get a good start on it in developing a good enough root system in a month or two by going DSM. You'll just have to layout the substrate and hardscape, fill with enough water to get the substrate flooded enough where you barely see the floramax under water... plant the HC, spray everything with a mist of water... cover with some plastic wrap and get your lighting on a timer. You're basically creating a green house with your tank. By the time it fills in a bit, you'll have your next allowance cash to buy the rest of your stuff.


It sounds like CorallineAlgae here has done DSM or has better knowledge of it than me. I would also suggest doing some research and/or PM Aqua_Chem on how to do it. Or even start a new thread asking for some advice... I'd love to help, but since I've never done it.. it would almost be like the "blind leading the blind" in this particular case...

Edit:
Here's some more links just from googling...

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/foru...-start-method-for-starting-a-new-planted-tank

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189228

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3594-The-Dry-Start-Up-Method-for-Planted-Aquariums

 

[Scottyhorse]

I haven't done a DSM before. However, from what I've seen in the forums, I believe it doesn't take that long at all. HC grows faster immersed rather than submersed. It would of course take longer, if you want it to fully carpet, which you've mentioned you don't care to do.. but I believe you can at least get a good start on it in developing a good enough root system in a month or two by going DSM. You'll just have to layout the substrate and hardscape, fill with enough water to get the substrate flooded enough where you barely see the floramax under water... plant the HC, spray everything with a mist of water... cover with some plastic wrap and get your lighting on a timer. You're basically creating a green house with your tank. By the time it fills in a bit, you'll have your next allowance cash to buy the rest of your stuff.


It sounds like CorallineAlgae here has done DSM or has better knowledge of it than me. I would also suggest doing some research and/or PM Aqua_Chem on how to do it. Or even start a new thread asking for some advice... I'd love to help, but since I've never done it.. it would almost be like the "blind leading the blind" in this particular case...

Edit:
Here's some more links just from googling...

DSM, Dry start method for starting a new planted tank

DSM method with HC

The Dry Start Up Method for Planted Aquariums - Aquarium Plants

Thanks, I'll read those links. Do you have any idea if the other plants will be okay with the DSM? The plants are going to be here Saturday I believe.
At least one of the blind has one of those walking stick things

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I'm not sure.... according to Tom Barr on that third link I provided you, he said "Generally this method is most suited for lawns of HC, Glossostigma, Crypts, some stem plants, swords, dwarf clover, dwarf hygro and the like." So since you couldn't wait and ordered the plants already, I guess you'll just have to throw it all in the tank, ditch the DSM, and hope for the best without the ferts. Good luck...

 

[Scottyhorse]

I'm not sure.... according to Tom Barr on that third link I provided you, he said "Generally this method is most suited for lawns of HC, Glossostigma, Crypts, some stem plants, swords, dwarf clover, dwarf hygro and the like." So since you couldn't wait and ordered the plants already, I guess you'll just have to throw it all in the tank, ditch the DSM, and hope for the best without the ferts. Good luck...

Hey, guess what? I got my tank and substrate (what a pain to wash!!!) and my mom said I could order some dry ferts!! AND the kit that I bought came with some liquid ferts, so that should last until the dry ferts get here. Yay!

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Cool... Congrats!!! Can't wait to see the pictures

 

[Scottyhorse]

Thanks! I have a build thread going on the General Discussion Forum going, if anybody wants to check it out, with pics! I think I ended up with 30 pounds of the substrate, but I was able to create hills, which looks cool

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Thanks! I have a build thread going on the General Discussion Forum going, if anybody wants to check it out, with pics! I think I ended up with 30 pounds of the substrate, but I was able to create hills, which looks cool

Just checked it out and subscribed. The four leaf will need to be cut before planting. It comes with crazy tall immersed leaves and stems. Awesome little plant though. None of mine are even an inch tall!

 

[Scottyhorse]

Just checked it out and subscribed. The four leaf will need to be cut before planting. It comes with crazy tall immersed leaves and stems. Awesome little plant though. None of mine are even an inch tall!

Thanks for the tip/warning! How tall should I trim it to?

Thanks!

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Thanks for the tip/warning! How tall should I trim it to?

Thanks!

Trim it really short, like 1/2 an inch from the bottom. It'll grow four leaves at first but change to single leaves after a couple weeks. It only grows 4 leaves above water and during fully aquatic adjustment. They'll look like dark green glosso once they adjust. Really beautiful.