Filamentous algae.. Why??

[Khuligirl93]

Hey everyone, so I'm not new to planted tanks or this forum, but I have been MIA for a few months. Just got my 10 gal back up and running and having a few issues.

So I had a bunch of Java ferns in the tank under very low lighting for probably 8 months, but now I upgraded to high lighting (my finnex ray2) and pressurized CO2, and dosing GLA pps pro.
As you can see Im getting some long stringy algae that I've never encountered before. And my Java ferns are melting away.. Any advice? I'm running lights about 8 hours. After noticing the algae a couple days ago I turned up the CO2, but it's still getting worse. http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums...E-E9EB-444F-AF99-C4877B325812_zpsafu0uipi.jpg

http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums...0-919F-4B1F-A531-5E7BFF4C16AF_zpsz5hszsno.jpg

I'm considering just throwing a bunch of fast growing stem plants in there and doing EI instead of pps pro.

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[Reefer James]

Now that you're injecting co2 your plants have a greater needs for other areas of energy such as substrate, and water column. It would appear as though your immobile elements such as iron are deficient. You may need to check out Potassium as well. The CO2 supply would just be extra energy for algae without plant energy available in every other form necessary. All un-used light energy the algae will take in for sure.

 

[Khuligirl93]

I don't have a way to test for iron or potassium, should I just add some extra ferts? A couple ml of micros and macros?


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[PerfectDepth]

I think it's more likely a co2/light imbalance at this point, however with that much light, more ferts may be needed eventually once you get good co2 concentration AND distribution. Reduce lighting to 5 hrs. at least for now. A Ray 2 is a lot of light for a 10 gallon if I'm not mistaken. Do you have it suspended or is it directly on the tank?







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[Reefer James]

I think 5 hours of light may grow black algae. When new plant leaves start to change color and have holes its element deficiency. I have to dose Iron daily to keep it stable at .10 - this is really important actually.... At least if we want our leaves to continue to be beautiful.

It is likely you do not have a daily iron need but there's a need for it it looks like from pics.

That hairy stuff may be hair algae which is usually from co2 instability or it changes around. It stabilizes off.

 

[PerfectDepth]

I assumed that 0.1 ppm of Fe is already being added. PPS pro is dosed daily and provides about 0.1 ppm per dose.


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[Reefer James]

I assumed that 0.1 ppm of Fe is already being added. PPS pro is dosed daily and provides about 0.1 ppm per dose.


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More iron than the PPS should be introduced. Its also chelated... our plants have to expend large amounts of energy to get the iron from the chelate to be able to use it. There's better sources of Fe... Iron should be presented to plants in the ferrous form.. Ferric iron takes a lot of energy for plants to convert it to ferrous state where it is actually useable.

This process of conversion, reduction, forces the plant to expend physiological energy...

 

[PerfectDepth]

Like you mentioned, though, iron is immobile, so generally an iron deficiency will affect the new growth and not the established leaves. To me, in the photo it looks like leaves that were normal and fully formed, and then started melting away. Honestly, I think Java fern can be kinda unpredictable when it comes to drastic changes like this. It may lose most leaves and just take some time to adapt and regrow. In the meantime it might be wise to get some faster growing plants in there to make use of the available light energy so algae doesn't take over.


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[Reefer James]

Like you mentioned, though, iron is immobile, so generally an iron deficiency will affect the new growth and not the established leaves. Honestly, I think Java fern can be kinda unpredictable when it comes to drastic changes like this. It may lose most leaves and just take some time to adapt and regrow. In the meantime it might be wise to get some faster growing plants in there to make use of the available light energy so algae doesn't take over.


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That's why I mentioned Potassium :/ Theres holes in the leaves... Come on this is potassium deficiency hahaha. Calcium, boron and other trace elements are also likely low... A lack of N (nitrogen), P (phosphorus), K (potassium) as well as iron and magnesium is more probable and should thus be considered first.

If the OP has concerns of algae growth an increase in CO2 would be recommended to allow current plants to utilize available light energy.... I do however believe before buying new plants this OP should consider why the leaves are growing the way they are and why the old leaves are getting holes... It may be the substrate. It may be the water column. The algae is the least of my concern based on the pictures and status of plants..

 

[PerfectDepth]

Ahh.. I just noticed the anubias with holes. I must've missed that. Hmm.. Usually PPS pro is sufficient for slower growing plants like these. One easy way to find out: switch to EI as mentioned and just eliminate the worry over deficiencies completely.

Edit: Actually now that I look closer.. I'm still leaning toward co2. It's hard to say.. the holes in the anubias could be a nutrient issue, but to me it looks less like the pinholes indicative of K deficiency and more like structural deterioration of old leaves due to lack of carbon.

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[Mebbid]

9 times out of 10 the filamentous algae is caused by an imbalance between light and carbon.

How is the java fern planted / attached?

How do you inject the CO2?

The finnex ray 2 has a HUGE light output. Think reef level lighting for a 10g tank. At 12 inches they should put out somewhere around 120 par. If your plants are halfway up in the tank then that is likely closer to 200 par. Keeping in mind that around 80 is considered high light.

Your tank doesn't look like it's particularly heavily planted so I would put money on a lack of nutrients not being the problem.

I am actually having the same issue with my Java fern in my high light tank w/ pressurized co2 and EI dosed ferts and the only thing I can think to attribute the lack of health for my java fern is too much light.

 

[Delapool]

I've got this in a small tank, no co2 or ferts dosing. Light I suspect is a bit high and thinking of cutting it back.

Did try dosing potassium but that seemed to only encourage it. Only have foxtail so potassium not quite so critical.

 

[alvinongbt.ao]

This is a transition of low light to high light systom. Anubias and java fern are low light reguirement plants. Having too much light will actually stunt its growth. The plants are melting away cause they cant take it with so much light. I doubt adding ferts will help.

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[Reefer James]

This is a transition of low light to high light systom. Anubias and java fern are low light reguirement plants. Having too much light will actually stunt its growth. The plants are melting away cause they cant take it with so much light. I doubt adding ferts will help.

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By providing plants with energy available in more/ALL forms they are able to utilize other forms of energy. If all you have is light energy it will not be utilized fully. If you start adding in Co2, light energy starts to be utilized a lot lot more. And even furthermore with the addition of other ferts to water column and substrate.

We can see why now in this case adding more ferts would allow the "low light" plants to better use this extra light now being offered giving it a more fighting chance.........

 

[Khuligirl93]

Wow lots of responses- thanks guys!
So all these anubias I actually got from a really old tank (set up for 20 yrs) that someone took down, and just put them in my tank a week ago, so any problems with the anubias is probably from the previous tank.
And you are right that the Java fern leaves that are deteriorating are the old leaves, not new ones.
I am dosing micro and macro fert packages pps pro style (potassium nitrates separated) ... I thought that provided everything I needed.
The algae is SO MUCH WORSE today, I'll change the lighting to 5 hours.
The ray2 is sitting directly on top. But I had this tank set up 2 years ago the exact same way and it ran great. I'll see if I can round up some pics of it. I definitely had more stem plants though.


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[Khuligirl93]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/members/78133-albums12473-picture60918.png
Alright i hope this picture shows up.. this is what it looked like 2 years ago. Exact same setup, except i was not dosing ANY fertilizers. Zero algae grew.

 

[PerfectDepth]

The java ferns will probably rejuvenate, just give them some time. Do you have any other plants in there that are currently healthy and growing? If not, that would be the one obvious major difference even though it's the exact same setup. The algae problem is no surprise if there are no plants currently utilizing the light energy, since algae will always take advantage of such an opportunity.

CO2 is the tricky part! How are you injecting it (ceramic disc, reactor, ?), and how are you measuring co2 concentration?

 

[Khuligirl93]

That may be the issue. I only have slow growing plants in there right now. Trying to get some Java miss growing on driftwood, anubias, Java ferns, a water lily, and one bacopa stem.
Diffusing with a ceramic diffuser. I'm not measuring the CO2.. I need to get a drop checker. I had it figured out before, by testing the pH throughout the day and I just tried to match it to the amount it was coming out before.
So after dosing my tank with extra pps pro and turning down the photoperiod to 5 hours this is what I've got... Just worse.
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums...C-A8EC-4B82-AF47-4BAE33DD9898_zpsbgvot9ao.jpg
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums...5-402B-45A1-A326-021EA91E792D_zpsh418s2w4.jpg

Sounds like I need to stock with a bunch of stem plants!


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[PerfectDepth]

Sounds like a plan. I would get that stuff out of there asap though. That type of algae is usually easy to pull out. Use an old toothbrush, turn it and wrap it around the end of the brush. You can use planting tongs to get the rest.

Prune those dying leaves, too. Maybe leave a few partial leaves if there are no full leaves left so it's not down to just the rhizome (nothing wrong with that, it will regrow but it may take a little longer)


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