Getting Started on Planted Tanks - please help

[Thaiboxer]

Hi everyone!

(FYI - I read all the Planted Tank sticky messages, so I'm asking questions based on some of the knowledge in those)

I am a newbie to planted tanks, but have been managing aquariums for several years. I have the advantage of understanding how to cycle a tank, stock it, and basic care and water changes. For the last two years I've been running a very stable 125 gallon tank that's loaded with South American cichlids. Big ones. I've actually had really good luck with my tank until the last year or so but have recently decided to break it down completely and build a planted tank from the ground up. Here's my story (followed by a patient plea for advice from the gurus):

Background:
As you can see above, I have a 125 gallon tank with quite a few cichlids (2 oscars, a Jack Dempsey, a Red Terror, 2 monster plecos, 2 red parrots, and one or two others). The fish are pretty happy and get along okay. My #1 problem is algae. Black fuzzy stuff that's nearly impossible to get rid of.

I've done a lot of research in an effort to track down the source of said algae, and isolated it this weekend. My aquarium water is very healthy - Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and Phosphates are all very tolerable. However, my tap water has HUGE amounts of ammonia and nitrites! So basically, every time I change my water I'm hurting my fish. How messed up is that?

Solution #1 - I'm buying an RO setup and will for evermore use that as my water source.

Before I start that up, I'm going to tear down the tank. Why? Because it's going to be easier to wire brush my rocks, clean my gravel and dry it, and clean my filters and change all the media. Don't worry about the fish, some will be shipped to happy new homes and others will reside in other tanks. (Oh, yeah... I suffer from a terrible case of MTS... Multiple Tank Syndrome)

The goal:
I would like to have a happy community tank with some live plants. I'm not aiming for a densely planted tank, just enough to add some color. I'm aiming for mostly lower light plants, at least for starters.

My Questions...
What do I need to buy? Here's what I'm thinking of:

Water Quality: RO. Here's the one I'm looking at, I think it's plenty big to fuel my tanks and provide extra drinking water:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=30377;category_id=1755;pcid1=;pcid2=

Lights: Right now I'm running two 36" regular flourescent lights. Obviously not enough for any plants. I'm looking at buying two of these:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=29551;category_id=1875

That's 192 watts of good light, right? I think I'll also replace my current regular flourescent bulbs with nice ones, but not sure which. Here are a few options:
http://www.hellolights.com/36lamps2.html

Would the four lights (2 normal, 2 power compact) be enough for a standard 125 gallon tank? I believe it's 22" deep.

CO2? Do I need this right away?

Substrate: Right now I have about 150 lbs of regular gravel in there, I bought it from an LFS and cleaned it. Can I get away with no fertilizer and add it later if I want? Or do I have to decide now?

Undergravel Filter Trays? I own them, but they aren't in the tank today, should I put them back when I setup the tank again? Is there an advantage to the air space, or setting it up so I can easily run CO2 under the gravel later?

Filtration: Right now I have an Emperor 400 (too much surface agitation?) and a Magnum 350 running on the tank, as well as some internal cans that are powered by aeration. I also have a brand spanking new Filstar XP3 in the box. (Don't want to run it on the super algae system) For the new setup, I'm thinking of putting the Emperor on another tank and running the Magnum and Filstar in-line.

What do you think? What am I missing? Thanks again for helping me out!

 

[Zezmo]

I only have a minute because it's break time... but....

192 watts over a 125 gallon. That is less than 2 WPG, so CO2 supplementing is most likely not required.

The RO system you list, perhaps consider this one instead: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=30381;category_id=1755;pcid1=;pcid2=

First, I have that unit. I will say that Corallife make very high quality Water filtration units. I was surprised by the high quality (industrial quality) of the entire system.
The one I listed is only $30 more tha the one you list, but it has twice the capacity (you should buy a water filter with double the capacity that you think you need). It also adds a DI filter bed for tru RO/DI water. I also set mine up with a bypass, so I can run water through the entire filter, or just the micron and carbon block filters.

As for drinking, the water tastes awsome from that unit.

eh....break over

 

[czcz]

(I have never owned a medium or large tank, so you may not want to listen too much to me.)

lights - 192w CF + 60w NO makes CO2 sound like a good idea: You may have read reference on these boards of wpg breaking down in small tanks; it can break down in the opposite direction with large tanks, on the assumption that there is an upper threshold of lumens needed for "low light." 96w CF plus existing 60w NO will probably be fine for anubias sp, java sp, and so on. You could always get another 96w later if you want more light.

bulbs - I would get the Spectramax because it is the only one that says K rating, but I did not look very hard. You might like the effect of whatever bulbs you have now with the 6700K CF. Collective experience has shown plants are not very picky with K rating -- much of this is aesthetic.

substrate - your current substrate is fine, but if you want a root feeder -- crypts or large swords for example -- root tabs will help. Not having more light than necessary will drive down uptake, meaning you can get away with not dosing fertilizer. You can still try many plants as well: Jchillin is slowly growing L. repens -- a "medium light plant" -- under a low light non-fert dosed 75g IIRC, for example. I grow rotala rotundifolia in a low light 10g.

UGF - Collective experience says its a PITA and does no good. If youre thinking in terms of benefit of a large biofilter, plants by nature make it unnecessary.

Filtration - Any combination of your filters looks fine. As you may know from links in the CO2 thread, surface agitation is good in non-CO2 injected tanks. Just selectively plant if you choose an over-the-top return: vals are a pain but anubias does not mind the current, for example. I prefer fast flow in all my tanks as I have observed less algae and better plant health. Others disagree based on their experience. Experimentation is good.

HTH

 

[Jchillin]

Since czcz mentions my tank, I can give some thoughts about what I've done.

I have an low-light tank as mentioned, but I do use root tabs for the more difficult plants (ie: the Ludwigia repens, amazon swords and all of my crypts). I use and swear by the Fluval 404 canister, though you would need at least two for that sized tank.

UGF's are a hinderence to planted tanks. We need the ferts to remain in the substrate and the UGF's are designed to eliminate them. I also have normal (pea-sized) aquarium gravel which has served me well so far.

To get some idea of what it looks like, take a look at "my tanks" clicky in my sig. It is a complete jungle in there.

 

[Thaiboxer]

Alright. So the consensus is:
- no UGF
- carbon isn't a priority right now, but I have the capacity to add it quickly later. I've priced the whole system and can afford it.
- Lights. I'm going to get 2 96w 6,700 lamps and retro my two current fittings with 30w bulbs. That gives me a fair amount of light, almost 2x my gallons. I can retro another 96w lamp or two later if I have to, there isn't a big price break for buying double the capacity now.

I'm going to consider the larger RO system. Is there any disadvantage to having all that capacity if I'm not using it?

I know what I have to do to get started now. Thanks for the input! I'll take some pictures before I break it down, the canopy I'm building, and the "after".

Thanks again!