Gonna stop using excel

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Potluck

Aquarium Advice Addict
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From what I've read on many forums excel really does not add as much co2 as atmospheric pressure produces, plus excel in this document is shown to harm fish and actually break down cells in plants leading to killing the plant itself, In short it's wasting money as excel adds about 2 ppm where as doing nothing adds 25 times that, maybe this is incorrect but I want your all opinions on it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c8FYCvd5hiS36ONwr6JAq0qJFOGfoGUl/view
 
From what I've read on many forums excel really does not add as much co2 as atmospheric pressure produces, plus excel in this document is shown to harm fish and actually break down cells in plants leading to killing the plant itself, In short it's wasting money as excel adds about 2 ppm where as doing nothing adds 25 times that, maybe this is incorrect but I want your all opinions on it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c8FYCvd5hiS36ONwr6JAq0qJFOGfoGUl/view

Even if plants can't use the carbon the excel provides, what it does do is help degrade some protein/algae film that builds up over plant leaves, thus allowing them to utilize the carbon dissolved in from the atmosphere.
 
Even if plants can't use the carbon the excel provides, what it does do is help degrade some protein/algae film that builds up over plant leaves, thus allowing them to utilize the carbon dissolved in from the atmosphere.
But in that pdf the science shows it breaks down cells in fish and plants causing them harm
 
I use it but 'unconventionally' to say the least.
I get the metricide [2 or 4 times stronger then excel] and either install it with a syringe/turkey baster or with a spray bottle !
I spray some plants and the glass when I drop my water level on big water changes in some tanks.
I am either using it to kill algae or as a sterilizer/sanitizer as mild as it may be...
I let it sit on glass or plants a couple minutes then I just fill the tank up.
Never had a problem with this method.
As for killing algae ,oh yea this stuff kills !
I look at its use like a med. The stronger the dose the larger the form of life you will eradicate .
I am not certain but it sounds like they really pushed the amount on fish test and if they think fish farms are soaking the eggs and their fry like they tested they are either ignorant or lied to IMO..I am sure they use a broadcast method where overall dilution is much larger [like I do with a spray bottle ] . I have seen where fish farms treat their eggs for fungus for under 2 minutes and then they go into clean water with nothing...
It is a sterilizer ..
 
I have been trying to make sense of it, yeah they could of over exposed when doing studies as they usually do, but I don't have algae and excel really does not add carbon in a high enough amount to benefit the plants as far as growing, I've been discussing this all morning and planted tank hobbyists are like you CB as they only use it to spot treat algae not to supplement co2, thrive is coming out with a new fert with liquid carbon source in it that is not glut, it's non harmful to fish, plants /inverts, it's not been released yet as it's still in the testing process, I ran across 2 people that are very close to Tom Barr and actually work for nilcog, you should see their low tech tanks I mean what in the..... They are absolutely crazy and they don't inject co2 they use Citric acid which is an alternate?? I understand that excel does help break down algae but I'm just worried about the health of me, my fish and the plants.
 
I have been trying to make sense of it, yeah they could of over exposed when doing studies as they usually do, but I don't have algae and excel really does not add carbon in a high enough amount to benefit the plants as far as growing, I've been discussing this all morning and planted tank hobbyists are like you CB as they only use it to spot treat algae not to supplement co2, thrive is coming out with a new fert with liquid carbon source in it that is not glut, it's non harmful to fish, plants /inverts, it's not been released yet as it's still in the testing process, I ran across 2 people that are very close to Tom Barr and actually work for nilcog, you should see their low tech tanks I mean what in the..... They are absolutely crazy and they don't inject co2 they use Citric acid which is an alternate?? I understand that excel does help break down algae but I'm just worried about the health of me, my fish and the plants.


At risk of sounding like an enlightened preacher as a former user of this stuff I’d like to say that a) this stuff helps plants grow, no question but b) it kills stuff. I’ve pushed it and pushed it and can’t really say for certain it did any harm but theres the snag. I can’t be certain. Only since I stopped certain practices have I really seen what it is like to have a truly healthy tank and I now intend to keep it that way. No more glut for me....even for algae control. Stuff is not for aquariums.
 
They are absolutely crazy and they don't inject co2 they use Citric acid which is an alternate??
You mean this stuff ?!!:whistle:
2aWsgJll.jpg


There are several different ways to carbon dose safely and cheaply.
I vodka dosed a reef tank for over a year and now am in the process of starting vinegar dosing on my newly moved reef. I gave the vitamin C a shot a couple years ago but I don't think I understood it completely back then. I used that product in picture [still have it].
Most in reefs use these tools for nitrate and some PO4 reduction with focus on nitrate. Most fresh water people have only looked at these same product as a nitrate reduction tool instead of a plant 'supplement' . Most just conceited that water changes were easier then dosing a small amount like 15ml per 100g once or divided into twice a day.. ? :confused:
Like I said before I am not the plant guy but I still use many of the same tools in different applications . The dosing is an easy learning curve and I can link you what the reefers do with vinegar...
Kind of funny to me after you find out some add vinegar [or vodka] to their tanks daily when others are nervous they didn't rinse their new tank well enough and the may be some 'residue' ! :facepalm:
 
I beleive the citric acid mentioned is referring to the method of DIY CO2 generation (citric acid + baking soda as opposed to yeast + sugar). I have yet to try it but if I were to do DIY CO2, I would use that method.
Some may remember AA member Rivercats: she ran a 220g high tech densely planted tank solely on glut. The plants grew well despite the lack of CO2 (though down the road pressurized CO2 entered the picture).
When I ran a planted tank I used glut as a carbon supplement but primarily as an algaecide.
 
I beleive the citric acid mentioned is referring to the method of DIY CO2 generation (citric acid + baking soda as opposed to yeast + sugar). I have yet to try it but if I were to do DIY CO2, I would use that method.
Some may remember AA member Rivercats: she ran a 220g high tech densely planted tank solely on glut. The plants grew well despite the lack of CO2 (though down the road pressurized CO2 entered the picture).
When I ran a planted tank I used glut as a carbon supplement but primarily as an algaecide.
Yes it's the same thing, Citric acid and baking soda, these tanks are totally beyond my imagination for low tech no co2, had no idea they could be this amazing
 
You mean this stuff ?!!:whistle:
2aWsgJll.jpg


There are several different ways to carbon dose safely and cheaply.
I vodka dosed a reef tank for over a year and now am in the process of starting vinegar dosing on my newly moved reef. I gave the vitamin C a shot a couple years ago but I don't think I understood it completely back then. I used that product in picture [still have it].
Most in reefs use these tools for nitrate and some PO4 reduction with focus on nitrate. Most fresh water people have only looked at these same product as a nitrate reduction tool instead of a plant 'supplement' . Most just conceited that water changes were easier then dosing a small amount like 15ml per 100g once or divided into twice a day.. ? :confused:
Like I said before I am not the plant guy but I still use many of the same tools in different applications . The dosing is an easy learning curve and I can link you what the reefers do with vinegar...
Kind of funny to me after you find out some add vinegar [or vodka] to their tanks daily when others are nervous they didn't rinse their new tank well enough and the may be some 'residue' ! :facepalm:
Lol I hear you, remember when I cleaned my lids with vinegar I was freaking out haha, I have the tutorial on Citric acid + baking soda I just don't really trust things I know it works but I also don't know what it does to the fish.

They actually told me with my kh being 6 it would not be a good idea to introduce co2 or anything acidic
 
One of the administrators is Dennis Wong, don't know if you've heard of him or not
 
I like his experiment with EI which aids the notion that nutrients by themselves do not cause algae. The reasons of which are still unknown.
 
I like his experiment with EI which aids the notion that nutrients by themselves do not cause algae.
I have that article bookmarked to read tomorrow, I'm very intrigued at the knowledge of this gentleman.
 
Did the article show an average toxicity level at all? I had some old reading that suggested 2ppm - I was dosing this but dropped back to 1ppm. From memory normal dosing is less than 1ppm.

Only once have I killed a fish that swam directly through it when dosed. Otherwise no issues noticed in short-term. Long term I’m not so sure about - it could of been doing low-level damage or maybe it was helping reduce bacteria.

For carbon addition I have also concluded it adds no where near injected CO2.

Idk, sometimes I think high-tech planted tanks would be easier with no fish.
 
I no longer use excel at all for similar reasons. From what I have read, there is evidence to suggest that the old plant growth only looks healthy because it is essentially embalmed and preserved, and because of this new growth speeds up purely as a survival mechanism, not because of carbon availability.
They actually told me with my kh being 6 it would not be a good idea to introduce co2 or anything acidic
This is not true at all. Many people misunderstand the co2/kh relationship which leads to bad advice.
Yes it's the same thing, Citric acid and baking soda, these tanks are totally beyond my imagination for low tech no co2, had no idea they could be this amazing
I think you are misunderstanding the citric acid + baking soda thing. Just to be clear, no one is actually adding citric acid to their tank water. It is just an alternate way of gassing the tank with co2 that uses a chemical reaction to supply the gas.
 
Not going to lie.. I stopped using it a while back. I can't explain why on a scientific level. It may or.may not have worked great for years. It may or may not have given me asthma?? Done with it all together. H202 and co2 for me
 
I no longer use excel at all for similar reasons. From what I have read, there is evidence to suggest that the old plant growth only looks healthy because it is essentially embalmed and preserved, and because of this new growth speeds up purely as a survival mechanism, not because of carbon availability.

This is not true at all. Many people misunderstand the co2/kh relationship which leads to bad advice.

I think you are misunderstanding the citric acid + baking soda thing. Just to be clear, no one is actually adding citric acid to their tank water. It is just an alternate way of gassing the tank with co2 that uses a chemical reaction to supply the gas.

I know they aren't adding the Citric acid to the tank, it's the Gas from the Citric acid and baking soda reaction that's fed into the tank not the liquid itself.


From what I was told by a very reputable aqua scaper (one of the best out there) , that a kh value of 6 is on the high side when it comes to co2 injection, that most tanks running co2 are at about 2-3 I'm totally new to plants so I'm not to sure about this, I'm super low tech almost no tech tbh, but if you go on nilcog their carbon supplement actually has Citric acid in it, it's glut + Citric acid, it said Gluaraldehyde instead of Gluaraldehyde, I talked to the guys wife that does the website and they changed the typo today.

They are coming out with a new liquid fert that has a carbon source in it that's not glut but the gentleman testing it said they couldn't tell what it is until their beta testing is over.


This is the exact wording that was told to me when I was asking about my tanks tds being 161 and my THR could be a contributor.

"6 is fine; if you are not introducing acids
(such as C02 injection), the buffering
effect of limestone is mild. Ferts etc all
add to TDS though, but if you're doing
water changes, that will bring it down"
 
I no longer use excel at all for similar reasons. From what I have read, there is evidence to suggest that the old plant growth only looks healthy because it is essentially embalmed and preserved, and because of this new growth speeds up purely as a survival mechanism, not because of carbon availability.

This is not true at all. Many people misunderstand the co2/kh relationship which leads to bad advice.

I think you are misunderstanding the citric acid + baking soda thing. Just to be clear, no one is actually adding citric acid to their tank water. It is just an alternate way of gassing the tank with co2 that uses a chemical reaction to supply the gas.


Interesting on the glut. Do you have any references for this? It’s amazing what we will do just because others do it.
 
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