greg watson fert question...

[Purrbox]

Seachem is the recommended test kit for Phosphate at the moment. It's supposed to be just as good as the Lamotte kit but much less expensive. If you think the Seachem kit is expensive you don't want to know how much the Lamotte one would cost you.

I'm surprised that the Big Als can't test your water for phosphates, especially if they carry the kits in store.

 

[Plantbrain]

If you know what the tap is, call the tap water company, then you don't need a cheapy test kit, which even the SeaChem is, the color differences are very subtle, more than our eyes can measure well, the Lamotte has a very nice color chart in there.

Simply having 1-4ppm of PO4 is fine, you do not have to be that accurate, a few large water changes and the tank will be = to the tap.

Then dose with the right amounts from there.

I'd dose this to the 20 gal:

2x a week:

1/4 teaspoon KNO3
1/16th(take a 1/4 and divide into 4 equal parts) KH2PO4
5 mls of traces

GH booster after 50% weekly water change.
If you have above 60-70w on the tank, do the above 3x instead of 2x a week.

Now there's no test kit needs/required.

Keep a close eye on CO2 from there.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[CaptnIgnit]

Tom, when you say 5ml trace are you referring to SeaChem flourish? how would that equate to Plantex CSM+B?

 

[mr funktastic]

i dose 5ml of trace flourish trace after my water change. i also dose 10 ppm of nitrates and 15 ppm of potasium. i havent worked out a dosing schedule yet becasue of the phosphates. i will include a pic of the chart so u can see the differences. i dont understand how the tank isnt at zero phosphates yet. i have technically diluted it 50% 3 times. so assuming i started with 15 i should have been at zero but i am still registering above 5 so that measn i dose over 20 ppm of phosphates. i went to the fish store to get a new test but they would not accept the return of the old one. i completly forgot about getting them to test the water but i dont think that they do the phosphate test any way. the other test were just to much money. the red sea test was 20 and the seachem test was 22 bucks. thats just to much. i will wait a bit and retest again. if all else fails i will just do a huge 75% change to re set it. here is the pic
u can clearly see it is well over 5 and not like maybe 2.5

 

[Plantbrain]

I generally give each trace equal weight per ml.

This is a safe assumption as the amounts dosed are all in excess of plant needs.

If I use 20mls on a 120 gal tank, 3x a week, that will supply enough for most any light, stocking fish load level or plant biomass.

I also assume that excess traces do not induce algae, I've never found evidence for this in testing, neither have many other folks in the local and international plant growing clubs.

So while they are not all equal at a base level, at the range I suggest, they are nion limiting to plant growth in all cases.

This is wasteful to some degree, but there is a very easy method that also does not involve test kits to reduce the amount need to match your individual light, plant biomass ansd type/species, and other factors.

NO3, K, PO4 are all very cheap by comaprsion, but this same method can be used there as well if you are interested in providing "just enough". This method of "just enough" works best at lowering lighting.

It is erronous to assume that just enough is the best model for dosing, it's not.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[mr funktastic]

that makes sense. but i was having a slight cloud in my tank. i didnt know what this cloud was being cause by so i assumes PO4. so i bought the test kit and the tank read zero. i have 10 ppm of nitrates and no phosphates. so i mixed up the batch of PO4 and dosed the 1 ml like i was supposed to to get 1 ppm and i ended up with astronomical levels. i just did another 25% change and still above 5. would there be anything in my tank that would casue the po4 to stay high. i only feed once per day and not evry much when i do. i havent added or taken anything out of the tank that would affect it. i am still getting that slight cloud and i think it is now from excess PO4. i just cant seem to win. plants are still growing and pearling but i have that really annoying cloud.

 

[CaptnIgnit]

OK, so I'm trying to get my head around this.

if you treat 5ml of trace the same (csm or floruish) then 5ml or 1 tsp in 20 gallons of water is ~4 ppm of iron. Isn't that way too much?

 

[mr funktastic]

i dont think the concentration is that high in iron. what makes u think that there is 1 ppm of iron per ML in the trace?

 

[CaptnIgnit]

Well Tom said that he treated different traces roughly the same.

I took that to imply 5ml of flourish is the same as 5ml of CSM+B. 5ml is roughly equal to 1 tsp and using the calc found here:

http://justanothertank.com/calcs.php

if you dump 1 tsp into 20 gallons that gives you ~4 ppm of iron.

I can't imagine that is right, so what I missing is my real question?

 

[fish_4_all]

5ml can never be treated the same as 1 tsp unless you are talking about the exact same thing. CSM+B mixed to 1 tsp in 100 ml of water will give you .078ppm iron per ml dosed. 4.0ppm is way too high IMHO, but I have never dosed higher than 0.4 so I can't say from experience. If you want 0.4ppm then mix 1 tsp. CSM+B with 100 ml of water and dose 1 tsp or 5ml of the solution.

 

[czcz]

FYI, on his site Tom has said he used 1TBL of CSM+B in 250mLs. 5mLs of this solution dosed into 20gals is almost the same Fe as Flourish. (0.234ppm Fe to 0.211ppm Fe, respectively.)