Hagen CO2 output?

[Fubie]

Hello everyone. I know this question will depend on the recipe used so I'm looking for your experience. What is a good bubble rate output for the Hagen CO2 ladder system? Or any DIY CO2 setup? I've been working with my recipe but after a day or so I see a steep drop off of bubble rate. It starts at about 2-3 bubbles per second and drops to 1 per second by the end of the first day. After a week it is fairly constant at about 1 bubble every 1.5-2 seconds. I'm guessing here but I think I am not getting very much CO2 into my tank with this low of a bubble rate. Is there a general rate for I should be shooting for?

Also since I'm currently using the ladder would I see better absorption by switching to something like the Red Sea CO2 Reactor 200?

TIA

 

[Tiffi]

What size is your aquarium, how much wpg do you have and how many plants?

 

[Purrbox]

The bubble output you are describing sounds about right from my experience, although it might be falling off a bit sooner than mine did.

1. What CO2 levels (KH & PH) are you getting with your current recipe?
2. What is your current recipe, including the type of yeast used?
3. How long does your current recipe last before you have to replace it?

I always had good luck filling to the marked lines for sugar and water, and then using 1/8 tsp Champagne Yeast and 1/2 tsp of Baking Soda. I would foam the Yeast with 1 T of Sugar and water for 30 min before adding it to the reactor. This always gave me nice steady production for a month, although there was a lot better production the first week than the last.

I recently replaced the Hagen System with two 1 Liter DIY reactors and a Red Sea Reactor 200. I found that the first week while running the new diffuser with just one bottle, that I had slightly better CO2 levels than before. This probably wouldn't have been enough of a difference to justify changing the diffuser, except that it is in a 5 Gallon tank which made the savings on space well worth it. I need to retest and see what my CO2 levels now that I have had the second bottle running for a couple of days.

To really see a significant differance in the absorption I think you would need to switch to a powered diffusion method, instead of just switching to a different type of passive diffusion.

 

[Fubie]

10g 2.2wpg 6800K CF
3 groups of anacharis (about 3 stems per)
2 hornwort plants
1 microsword plant
7.2 pH
8º KH
0 ppm ammonia
0 ppm nitrites
0 ppm nitrates
Dosing:
Daily with Excel
Once per week with Flourish Iron
Twice weekly with Flourish
One Flourish tab in gravel by Microsword
Bio-wheel filter with bio-wheel removed (I'll be switching to an AC20/30 soon)
Twice weekly PWC.
Anything else???

All I'm really looking for is a general rule of thumb about bubble rate and expected CO2 levels. This assuming that surface agitation is kept to a bear minimum.

 

[Purrbox]

You are getting about 15ppm of CO2 with your current setup. I would say that this is about right for the Hagen system from my experience. As long as your recipe is lasting at least 3 to 4 weeks, I wouldn't expect that there is much tweaking that you would need to do to the recipe and your bubble count would be right on target.

Now that I think about it, I think that I'm getting about 1 bubble per second with the new setup in the 5 Gallon.

If you want to improve your CO2 levels, I would recommend adding a second reactor and staggering when you refill them. This would increase the CO2 you are injecting into your tank and even out the CO2 levels over the life of the CO2 reaction. Another option would be switching to a powered reactor.

Since you have a medium to low light aquarium, I believe 15ppm of CO2 should be plenty to help out your plants and help fight algae. If you had more light over the tank it would be of more benefit to look at further increasing your CO2 levels.

 

[Fubie]

Right now my recipe is:

1/2 cup cane sugar (to lower mark in generator)
1 tbsp corn syrup
1/2 tsp baking soda
1/2 tsp Fleischmans Active Yeast (not quick rise)
Filled with tepid water (to top mark in reactor)

I've had difficulty with any recipe I've used keeping CO2 production going for more than a couple of weeks though. Even when using the suggested 1/8 tsp of Yeast. I have only been running this one for a week so I don't know yet how long I'll get out of it. Last week after suspecting my tubing was causing a CO2 leak I replaced the stock tubing with silicon airline tubing. I also sealed the Hagen generator threaded fittings with Teflon tape. Does output seem to improve if you leave the generator open to the air after mixing for awhile? You are the second person here I have read comment on that. I have been mixing and immediately sealing the unit.

Also after reading around here some I really do think I should build up a 2-2L generator setup. And I've come to the conclusion, especially since you mentioned it again Purrbox, that I should get some Wine Yeast to better improve my CO2 output. The only trouble with my tank and an active reactor is space. Most reactors have the pump mounted on top of the chamber and that needs about 8" or 9" of water space to run. I've been asking about running a completely external setup possibly with a Aqua Medic Bactoball 1000 reactor though as a possibility.

So all in all 15-20 ppm of CO2 with this setup is about all I'll get? Do you see any trouble with me going to 3 wpg if I "upgrade" my generator setup to 2L bottles?

 

[Purrbox]

If you plan to upgrade your lighting, I think that switching to the two 2 Liter bottles would be a good idea... though with that size tank you might be able to get away with two 1 Liter bottles instead. You'd need to wait for one of the experts to chime in on that one since all of my experience is with smaller tanks when it comes to CO2.

I'd definately recommend switching to Champagne Yeast, or at least Wine Yeast. From everything I've read it's the best way to get longer reaction times out of your mix. I've been using Champagne Yeast for a couple of months now, and consistently get 4 weeks of production. One small packet will give you enough yeast for several mixes at 1/8 tsp. I've gotten at least six so far and probably still have half the packet left.

As far as foaming the yeast, from what I understand this is a way to get your reaction started faster and more consistently. It doesn't really affect the overall output or length of reaction, just helps to make sure that it does start and that it takes less time to get going.

 

[Fubie]

I might just start my generator again and give the foaming method a try. I read somewhere on here that specialty yeast was had at ebrew.com. Did you get yours online or locally? And if you don't mind Purrbox, what is your upscaled recipe for your 2L generators?

 

[Purrbox]

I was probably the one that you read got the yeast from ebrew.com, as I had mentioned that in another thread. So, yep, I got it online.

I'm not currently running any 2 Liter bottles, just 1 Liter and 20oz. I'd probably just double the recipe for my 1 Liter bottles and go from there if I ever need to run 2 Liter bottles. Here's my recipe scaled for each size bottle. Since I don't have a measuring spoon for 1/12 tsp or 1/3 tsp, I just sorta guesstimate those measurements.

2 Liter Mixture
1/4 tsp Yeast
1 tsp Baking Soda
3/4 cup Sugar
1 1/2 Liter Water

1 Liter Mixture
1/8 tsp Yeast
1/2 tsp Baking Soda
3/8 cup Sugar
3/4 Liter Water

20 oz Mixture
1/12 tsp Yeast
1/3 tsp Baking Soda
1/4 cup Sugar
15 oz Water

 

[smn723]

Now from what I have read recently I have noticed a lot of specialists in this area mention that it is best to use CO2-proof tubing instead of your silicon airline tubing. The silicon tubing reacts with the CO2 making it much less effective. I am somewhat of a newB though so if someone can verify my statement I'm sure the poster and myself will feel a little at ease.

You can get the CO2-proof tubing from most online providers of CO2 systems and accessories. I can find a link if wanted. Not sure if this makes a significant difference in the DIY CO2 systems.

 

[Hoovercat]

Silicone airline tubing is the CO2 resistant tubing. Vinyl is the stuff that is gas permeable and hardened badly by CO2. I don't buy online though, my local Petcos have 25ft. for 3.99 or some such.