Help me decide on substrate!

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dr_girlfriend

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
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I have a few substrate choices and I can't decide what I want to do. First would be a layer of soil topped by pea gravel. Second would be soil covered by sand. Third would be just sand with a bottom layer of peat and mulm.
Its going to be in a 90 gallon with canister filter and co2. So what would be the better of the 3?
 
soil w/ sand is what I'm leaning towards. I was just wondering if any one had any strong opinions on one way or the other.
 
Soil with gravel works for me but I can't say that it is any better than your other choices. If you do go with sand I highly recommend getting some Malayan Trumpet snails to help stir things up and keep from getting pockets of anaerobic bacteria.
 
and with sand, use pool filter sand, and not play sand. pool filter sand is coarser, so it doesn't compact, and allows nutrient/water flow around the roots better than play sand.
 
Black Beauty blasting sand makes a very attractive dark sand substrate very similar if not identical to Tahitian Moon Sand and much cheaper :)
 
I would stay away from peat and soil. Peat will soften and color your water and soil is a pretty broad term (to many chances for things to go bad). They both rot and your substrate would have much less mileage.

My suggestion would be to go to a lfs and buy the best quality substrate for planted tanks. It may be a few bucks more, but you won't be sorry.
 
If your going to use soil I would definitely do as much research on it as possible... and as far as it spoiling or changing the water color the organic layer is never to be exposed in a layered substrate.. this has been done with great success and does get good mileage.. the LFS planted substrates are ALOT more expensive as well is why I think you were asking this question.. so you could avoid that route..
If we could all shell out the bucks at a LFS personally I wouldnt have to do any research at all.. thats the point of talking to other hobbiests in my opinion.. to get other options than the premade and marketed ones that the LFS can sell me..
 
No matter how you layer your substrate with organic stuff, such as peat, you will not eliminate decomposition, even if you put a steel plate on the top of it. That means methane bubbles coming out of it, or even worse, chunks of it venturing to the surface. Some people lay down peat in nylons, but then if you need to replace or rearrange plants, kiss their roots goodby. Coloring the water is another thing. Again, speaking of peat, it will give the water brown-yellowish color that will never disappear. This may be cosmetic for some tanks, but for taller ones it affects the amount of light delivered to plants and is something definitely to consider. Lights are not cheap either. Another thing to consider is that it will make water acidic. I think I read somewhere that it takes the pH down to 6.8 dead on. This may be beneficial, depending on the fish species planned to stock.

Considering above, you can barely find peat in lfs, and that's not because they don't want to sell it, but because fewer and fewer customers are interested in it.
 
The problem with layering various substrates is that it eventually mixes together.

Unless your very experienced, I'd stay away from soils or peat moss on the bottom. Sooner or later they are going to be desturbed and mixed with the other substrates. Causeing water clarity problems.

Pay the extra money and get Eco Complete or some other comperable substrate specific for planted aquariums. It will more than pay for itself in the long run.
 
Milan, please don't take this as me trying to personally dispute what you've said...nothing personal here at all, I just want to expand on a few issues and clarify some point I may have failed on earlier.

Milan said:
No matter how you layer your substrate with organic stuff, such as peat, you will not eliminate decomposition,

Couple of brief points, the reason for using a small amount of peat is precisely for the benefits of decomposition. Again it's only a few handfuls for a 75 gallon tank. I add peat whether using Eco-Complete, Flourite, or plain gravel. The peat helps establish a source of nutrients for the plants during the first couple of months before the substrate matures. The decomposition adds CO2 to the root zone and supplies macro and micro nutrients for the brief first few months.

even if you put a steel plate on the top of it. That means methane bubbles coming out of it, or even worse, chunks of it venturing to the surface.

Maybe if you are describing a full inch or more layer of peat this could happen, again you should only use a handful of peat per 10 gallons of tank. Any gas bubbles coming from this type of substrate would be CO2 and/or O2. It should be noted that any methane produced in the substrate is converted to CO2 by a process label oddly enough Methane Oxidation by methane-oxidizing bacteria. It should also be noted that 91% of the methane produced in the Florida Everglades is oxidized this way [Westermann P. 1993. Wetland and swamp microbiology. pp 205-238]

Some people lay down peat in nylons, but then if you need to replace or rearrange plants, kiss their roots goodby.

Using this technique would be horrible, I'd strongly recommend leaving the peat simply scattered and mixed into the bottom 1/3 of the substrate.

Coloring the water is another thing. Again, speaking of peat, it will give the water brown-yellowish color that will never disappear.

Again, the small amount of peat being used does not have any noticeable color change. But even if it did, which it doesn't, using a bit of fresh AC briefly in you filter will remove the yellowish tint.

Another thing to consider is that it will make water acidic.

Having had extensive experience with peat both for supplementation to new substrates and filtering with peat to try to soften water I can speak from long term personal experiences.

1) The amount of peat added to the new substrate should only be about a handful per 10 gallons of tank. This amount will not cause any tinting of the water nor will in have any impact on pH...except at the very initial first few weeks the tank is being established...this is mainly a result of the CO2 being produced. The amount of humic and fulvic acids released from the peat won't play any significant or measurable role in the tanks ecology.

2) Peat softens water based on the pH of the peat and the dwell time to volume of water. There isn't any set point the peat will drop a pH too, other than when the peat is "spent" the effects will halt. When this occurs will depend entirely upon the pH of the peat, the amount of peat being used compared to the volume of water. Meaning peat with the pH of 4.5 added at a rate of 1 gallon of peat to 1 gallon of water would have a much greater softening and pH lower effect than would Peat with a pH of 6.0 and using 1 quart of peat to 5 gallons of water. Peat softens water by exchanging Ca++ and Mg++ ions for H+ ions thus reducing the hardness and lowering pH.

I think I read somewhere that it takes the pH down to 6.8 dead on.

Not the case, see the above explanation.

Considering above, you can barely find peat in lfs, and that's not because they don't want to sell it, but because fewer and fewer customers are interested in it.

I can purchase a lifetime supply for about $3.00 at a local nursery. Why would a LFS carry it. They don't carry Eco-Complete at any of my LFS either, but it's still an excellent choice and product. LFS don't carry KNO3, K2SO4 or Fleet Enemas, yet they are extremely valuable to the planted tank enthusiast. Heck, other than Hagen's CO2 system you can't find CO2 equipment locally at fish stores either...it they must be purchased online or from welding supply companies, my point is availability isn't an indicator of need or desirability for a planted tank.

Again, please don't misinterpret my intent of this post. I agree that adding a 1 or 2 inch layer of peat to a tank is a poor idea. Certainly experienced and well informed aquarist can use soil tanks successfully following the Diana Walstad method but a beginner should probably only add a small amount of organic material to a substrate. Using the recipe I posted earlier has been used and repeated successfully literally dozens and dozens of times.
 
so steve, what kind of sand do you reccomend? theres only 2 kinds of sand out here. play and ugly sand blasting sand. and thats it. the sand blasting one is very sharp, and I don't think it would be too good on corys or on plant roots
If I had the money, I would actually get red sea flora base for my tank, not eco-complete. But at 25-30 bucks a bag and 1 bag per 10 gallons over 90 gallons is way more than I'm willing to pay for glorified dirt.
I'm also not an idiot and I'm not planning on adding a 4 inch soil base or a 1 or 2 inch peat layer. I've done alot of research, and have narrowed it down to these few choices. It seems people have success with all 3, I just wanted some opinions from people, hopefully that have experience with these substrates, on which way is better and why. Since I don't personally know any other aquarists, this is practically my only source of human contact on the subject. It just gets a little frustrating some times 8O
I was planning on doing this tank the "natural" way, but I wanted to be able to do aquascaping on my biggest show tank.
I listened to a speaking by tom barr, and he was talking on how he uses the peat/sand mixture or soil in most of his tanks. Thats what got me interested in a more "low tech" substrate.
My more detailed plan is to seperate the substrate into 2 sections. The front is plain sand, the back is the 1/2 inch of pre soaked soil covered by either more sand or darker gravel. Thats one of my non commited plans anyway :)
 
Thanks Steve, I now have a much better understanding of your layered substrate method that Ive seen you post about before.. Good post (y)
 
It may not be the correct way, but I mix eco-complete with regular black epoxy gravel at 10 lbs per 20 gal and it seems to work for me. 2 bags in a 55 gal, 1 bag in a 29 and a bag split between 2 10s. A lot easier on the wallet that way.
 
i agree...good post!! :kiss:
(i thought there was an emoticon for clapping, but kissing is close as I could find :) )
 
Here's a great how-to article on creating a split substrate (front/back) with a sand foreground. The tank shown is one put together by Luis Navarro, one of my favorite aquascapers :)
 
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