Help with deficiency.

[Peyton]

Two different plants in two different tanks are showing the same deficiency. Notice the curled leaf tips.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/peglegburnout/09132006001.jpg

and

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/peglegburnout/09132006002.jpg

I'm thinking calcium but I don't understand how with such hard water. On sept 4th I tested carbonate hardness = 190ppm and total hardness = 240ppm.

 

[7Enigma]

I've been in the same boat with odd deficiencies where the symptoms point to a conflicting result. You need (as I do) to get your local water report and find out what your levels are. It is possible (though not usually probable) that your tap has 239ppm of Mg and 1ppm of Ca. Total hardness (GH) is a combined amount of the calcium and magnesium in the water. If one is predominantly the component, you will have what we see here where your test says one thing, but the deficiency symptoms say another.

Trace dosing is also a likely culprit since depending on the trace deficiency you can have ANY of the symptoms for other common deficiencies.

Looking at the pics the deep reds would lend towards a nitrAte deficiency but I'm sure you have tested for that correct?

 

[Peyton]

I have recently increased my trace dosing. Trace is csm+b (1tsp in 250ml water). In My 20gal I went from 7ml every other day to 10ml every other day. Also in my 40gal from 14ml to 20 ml every other day. As far as nitrates they are kept at 20ppm. In some of my filters that have been running a while I actually have calcium buildup on them so I just don't see how calcium can be the culprit. Nonetheless I think I will ask for a report. The second plant is l. glandulosa and should actually be more red than that .

 

[malkore]

lighting type and wattage?

Co2 injection? if so how many ppm?

 

[Peyton]

Lighting in tank with Ludwigia Brevipes (1st pic) is 110w CF in 40gal. DIY co2 usually at 20-50ppm.

In 2nd pic with l. glandulosa is a 20gal long with 55w CF and 40w flourecent. Diy co2 at 20-127ppm.

 

[Peyton]

Ok I am absolutly stumped on this problem. I have been dosing CaSo4 1/4 tsp every other day in my 20gal. Also increased csm+b dosing to 7ml (250ml water + 2 tsp csm+b) I even have started adding 1ml flourish Iron thinking it's a iron problem.

So here is the rundown

KH = 11
co2 average of 52ppm
Dosing schedule,

sat, mon, wed, 1 tsp K2SO4 = 35ppm (I know it's a lot), test for N. Kept at 10-20ppm
test for PO4. Have been keeping it at 2ppm. 1 tsp MGSO4. 2ml excel

sun, tue, thur,
7 ml csm+b. 1/8 tsp CaSO4. 2 ml excel

Friday 50% water change. 20ml excel.

I was using a mix of 250ml water and 4 tsp K2SO4 at 20ml but some of the plants started showing signs of a deficentcy so I went back to dry mixing. Anybody got any ideas what could be wrong? I'm I seeing a K overdose problem?

 

[Steve Hampton]

Possibly K overdosing but that usually is only associated with low calcium levels. How much KNO3 are you adding weekly. It appears like its an N deficiency to me. Are you dosing NO3 based on test kit readings or just a set amount per week?

 

[Peyton]

Well I guess K2so4 for the week would end up being 105ppm total. Some reason I never thought of it that way. Still, when I was dosing less K2SO4 I got what looked like K deficentcy in elatine tiandra (yellow spots and holes in leafs). As far as a N deficentcy I have a pretty heavy bioload anywhere from 10-20ppm, so usually I just have to dose after a 50% water change. Usually about 15ml of flourish N total for the week.

 

[Steve Hampton]

Would you consider dosing KNO3?

IME you would need a huge, I mean huge bioload to avoid dosing lots of NO3 based on the nutrient loading you are currently dosing. If you are basing your NO3 levels on a test kit that may be the problem. Even my professional grade LaMotte NO3-N test kit is shaky at reporting precise and accurate readings on known reference samples. Forgetting the test kits and dosing a know amount is generally a better target to insure your providing what your plants need. If your plants need more NO3 then dosing additional KNO3 should produce noticeable changes within 1-2 weeks.

 

[Peyton]

Ok I went today to start doing my water change and found this

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b207/peglegburnout/09292006001.jpg

the plant is looking better. The leafs were curled straight down yesterday. Maybe it was a calcium problem and I just didn't give it enough time to take effect. I guess I expected results the next day. Now, looking at my logbook I see that it's only been a week since I started dosing CaSO4 . Yep, I guess I'm impatient .

 

[czcz]

Wow, dramatic improvement. Is that the same stem pictured earlier?

I attribute curling tips of L. brevipes to low traces, but have not properly messed with Ca or GH, fwiw.

 

[Peyton]

Wow, dramatic improvement. Is that the same stem pictured earlier?

I attribute curling tips of L. brevipes to low traces, but have not properly messed with Ca or GH, fwiw.

Yep, same stem as pic 2 in the original post. I moved it around a little so it would recieve better light. I put the l brevipes in another, lower light tank and it is doing better. I don't think the leafs were curled because of low traces in this instance. Dosing in that particular tank was at 20ml (250ml + 1tsp csm+b) every other day.

Ok a few hours after the last post with a pic showing the plant looking ok again. Well now it's back to the way it was before .
It's like it got something it needed then ran out again. I'm going to end up flushing this plant before it's over . No can't do that. I am determend to grow this plant even if it kills me :x .