High Tech Planted Questions

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aqua_chem said:
I just drop my ferts in dry. I've seen fish come up and take a chunk of ferts, and then they spit it back out, because it tastes horrible. No damage done. They would have to swallow it first, in which case the fish would go the way Darwin intended him to go...

When you say premixing, do you mean making your own pseudo-Flourish solution or do you mean mixing the day's ferts into a portion of tank water and then dumping that?

Test kits? .... I would get a nitrate test kit for sure, but otherwise that should be it. They make a phsophate test kit, but I would wager that it's mostly a waste in FW.

As far as actual dosing goes, that would really depend on the tank's demands. That's something that you will need to get a feel for yourself. Many of the fert dosing regimens that you'll see (ie EI) depend heavily on carbon, relying on it to be in excess in many cases. It will probably be the limiting factor in your tank.

I've never heard of stressing fish out from dosing ferts, but I suppose you would see something like that in tanks with really nitrate sensitive fish *cough* Discus *cough*

Now Chem I never said dosing ferts stresses fish no need to pick on discus lol! I'm just saying it's a really good debate I honestly don't know why this happens but I've seen/ and heard of it happening. If your asking me about mixing ferts I mix my dry into a lil tank water in a separate container before I add it in to mix it up evenly.
 
All excellent questions! To answer questions 1 & 2 kinda jointly I'm not familiar with that particular brand of dry ferts I use a different company but they should include a dosing chart and formulations with it. So following their dosage recommendation start off on the low end of dosing and monitor your fish and plants. If your fish show signs of any stress (which they shouldn't) you know your doing something wrong. As far as the plants go adjust ferts to their needs it takes a bit of playing around to get it right because different plants have diff nutrient needs(some like more potassium some like more nitrogen, etc,etc) the key is to find a good balance all species can thrive at without hurting one or the other. Now on to question three which just came up last week at my local plant club meeting and had the room of 60 club members split down the middle both with good points. I myself am on team don't dump it in on top of your fish. This Is because every tank I own which according to my wife is plenty, I have hungry mouths at the surface waiting or watching for food or to see what I'm up to. And I for the life of me can't understand how dumping pretty strong dry chemicals on those awaiting mouths is any good for them. I've never tried it and never will I premixed them in a little bowl of tank water before I add it in at different increments. Now my best friend of 31 years and who is a marine biologist dumps tons of ferts on top of his fish seen it with my own eyes(he doesn't aim for them on purpose but it gets all over them) now I've never witnessed instant death of his fish but he loses more than anyone I've ever seen. He styles all of his tanks after Amano with pressurized co2 and plants are primary to him fish secondary which in his set ups is understandable. But I don't believe in pointless fish losses and he does weekly 50% wc's and has lightly stocked tanks usually one large group of schooling fish (again Amano style) and feeds twice a day every other day. Ive tested his tanks myself water is perfect. He asks me why they die I tell him I think it's chemical damage he just shrugs and buys more so this is just my experience,in all of his low tech non dosing tanks no fish loss in his fishroom. So for me personal experience is none greater I'm sure theres all kinds of facts we can throw into this debate but I've checked every possible phenomenon behind this and half the group in my club meeting have seen similar experiences so it's deff a fun debate trust me. Just another one of those grey areas in fish keeping **** if you do **** if you dont.
Those seem to be valid points. I got it from Green Leaf which had been recommeded to be by a number of people and i noticed they had great reviews. (Shipping costs can be pretty rough though) I'm not currently running any CO2 systems in my tank other than the API CO2 booster which I dose daily.

I just drop my ferts in dry. I've seen fish come up and take a chunk of ferts, and then they spit it back out, because it tastes horrible. No damage done. They would have to swallow it first, in which case the fish would go the way Darwin intended him to go...

When you say premixing, do you mean making your own pseudo-Flourish solution or do you mean mixing the day's ferts into a portion of tank water and then dumping that?

Test kits? .... I would get a nitrate test kit for sure, but otherwise that should be it. They make a phsophate test kit, but I would wager that it's mostly a waste in FW.

As far as actual dosing goes, that would really depend on the tank's demands. That's something that you will need to get a feel for yourself. Many of the fert dosing regimens that you'll see (ie EI) depend heavily on carbon, relying on it to be in excess in many cases. It will probably be the limiting factor in your tank.

I've never heard of stressing fish out from dosing ferts, but I suppose you would see something like that in tanks with really nitrate sensitive fish *cough* Discus *cough*
I'm already using the API Mast which of course has Nitrate included so I guess i'm good there.

When i said premixed i guess i could pose it a couple of ways... I don't want a homemade Flourish type product but a botttle of Potassium Nitrate solution, a bottle of Magnesium solution, etc. then just use the amounts from each as needed (hope that makes sense). Or just mixing into a little tank water.

I'm not keeping any Discus so I'm good there too!





Since i'm only using the API CO2 would it also be recommended to get a different CO2 source (either a DIY or pressurized system. I have a few paintball tanks laying around)? Thanks for all the help!
 
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skywhitney said:
are there any regulators that are preferred?

I myself don't have any paintball style systems but there are a few good ones sold on fosters and smith.com or Milwaukee I believe has some that will work. All of mine are larger systems and I paid a pretty penny but well worth it for me. A guy in my plant club has the one from fosters and he loves it I've seen a video of his tank and it's working nicely for him. You'll thank yourself in the long run going pressurized buying yeast and sugar grows old fast. I can't tell you how many late night trips to the store I had to make because I forgot I was out of ingredients to start more co2 up. I'd rather pay for a few fill ups a year to bring me constant co2 and peace of mind.
 
The thing about paintball CO2 is that it's great for smaller tanks, topping out at 20-30g. For a 55, you might find that you're having to swap out tanks every week to few weeks, which is a pain imo, especially if they're expensive to fill (which I don't raelly know about). If you have several around the house from paintballing such that you can fill several up at a time, that's great (but possibly expensive). I would just recommend shelling the bucks on a full sized regulator ($90 inc shipping for a milwaukee) and 5# tank ($50). They should last you several months at least. You'll save additional money long run if you get a bigger tank.
 
aqua_chem said:
The thing about paintball CO2 is that it's great for smaller tanks, topping out at 20-30g. For a 55, you might find that you're having to swap out tanks every week to few weeks, which is a pain imo, especially if they're expensive to fill (which I don't raelly know about). If you have several around the house from paintballing such that you can fill several up at a time, that's great (but possibly expensive). I would just recommend shelling the bucks on a full sized regulator ($90 inc shipping for a milwaukee) and 5# tank ($50). They should last you several months at least. You'll save additional money long run if you get a bigger tank.

Well seeing as i have a 67g I dont know if the pb tanks would really cut it...maybe a 5lbs tank in the future (right now i have nowhere to put one). First thing first though, i have to get the ferts figured out lol
 
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I looked at the difference between the leavse i am having trouble with and the new leaves that are coming in and it looks like a different plant all together! I think that the nutrients are 50% of my issue but the other 50% is due to the emersed/submerged conversion. Just wanted to give an observation.
 
I myself got a new red rubin sword the other day and it's emersed growth is like day and night compared to the submerged. I really think that's all that's happening to yours, if your new leaves show signs of deficiency than I would worry it was a nutrient issue. Fertilize the sword by the roots and you'll have no issues at all they are heavy root feeders.
 
Discusapisto said:
I myself got a new red rubin sword the other day and it's emersed growth is like day and night compared to the submerged. I really think that's all that's happening to yours, if your new leaves show signs of deficiency than I would worry it was a nutrient issue. Fertilize the sword by the roots and you'll have no issues at all they are heavy root feeders.

The new leaves are showing some signs of deficiency but not near as bad. I have root tabs in for both of them and they seem to be loving them!
 
Thanks for the pics. The two taller leaves you can pick those off they are emersed growth still am I correct? Take those off your new growth looks good so far. With root ferts and some iron added to the water your sword is well on it's way my friend. Keep up the good work.
 
Thanks for the pics. The two taller leaves you can pick those off they are emersed growth still am I correct? Take those off your new growth looks good so far. With root ferts and some iron added to the water your sword is well on it's way my friend. Keep up the good work.

One of them is still emersed, the tallest one is submerged, or at least grew in after the plant was already in the tank so it might be a combo...if that can happen...The dry fert kit should be here on Monday so i dosed some Flourish tonight to help get though the weekend.

Here are a few pics of some of the other plants that I have as well. Does Wisteria have a tendency to melt when it is first put into a new tank?
 
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Did the wisteria come in the mail? Or a store? It does go through a adjustment period in some tanks. It's a fast grower and is hardy should bounce back quickly for you.
 
I've never had it but I think I remember reading that if you've had it in your tank for a while and has been doing fine, new growth might show a problem in formation when nutrients are off balance.
 
I got it from a store about a month ago. Its hardly grown at all since I put them in the tank. The only place I'm seeing issues is the old growth. So far, what new growth there is, is looking nice and vibrant.
 
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Just got my shipment of dry ferts! I did the first dose based off of this table for the 60-80g tanks...please tell me that was ok lol.

Based off of the EI methodology I should be dosing the same every three days with a 50% change on day 7 correct?

I also have a small 2.5g tank that has some plants in it (Java Fern, floating bits of Diandra, small Water Sprite, and a couple TINY stems of Anacharis) so could I make up another dose of the same concentration that I did today and just dose 1-2 ml to help out? What are your thoughts?
 
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Dude! You gotta check my anacharis thread! I just figured that plan out, and how to get it to grow nicely! ^^
 
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