holes in plants - loaches or nutrients?

[tetrin]

i have a 40g breeder (36*18*16) tank with the following:
lights - 4*40W GE plant & aquarium bulbs (yep, they stick out a bit), roughly 3 wpg
substrate - 2 bags of eco-complete mixed with black gravel
co2 - DIY co2 diffused via AC300 (thanks steve )
fertilizer - pmdd from greg watson's store (for last 3 weeks)

the tank has been set up since may. i can't give any tank parameters as i am really broke right now, even though i tried to go planted the cheapest way possible . also, if things go well, i intend to scrap the water testing altogether (working on a cichlid tank ).
i'm trying to use tom barr's estimative index, slightly modifying it on the way. as the tank is heavily populated, i'm assuming there's enough nitrates and phosphates. so, at the moment i'm dosing only K(1/2 teasp., twice a week, underdosed) and micros (CSM+B with extra iron, 10 ml twice a week, underdosed).
recently i'm noticing a lot of holes in the giant hygrophila (hygrophila stricta?), both small and large, some of them perfectly circular and some of them with jagged edges. i have a quartet of clown loaches in the tank, but i've never seen them nip at plants.
i'll be glad if someone can provide some insight into these (w)hole business. also, i'm having to scrape off a lot of stubborn green algae off the glass. is this common in planted tanks?

TIA, and sorry for the long rant.

 

[tetrin]

some pictures...

 

[tetrin]

sorry about that, i can't seem to post pictures, possibly to big to add as attachments.
so i uploaded the to the gallery, might take some time to show up.

 

[tetrin]

ok, i think i finally got it...

 

[malkore]

need Nitrate, phosphate, ph and Kh readings. can't assume anything. Tom's EI method is fine, but you have to have a clue what your tank is doing to begin with.

 

[tetrin]

hmmm...i was worried someone will ask me this.
but, really, i'm out of resources right now. so i'm going to continue this process for some more time.
malkore, any info on the clown loaches though? i noticed you had some of these guys. do they snack on your plants?

 

[czcz]

You could go all in with Tom Barr's EI and method of using plants and algae as indicators of nutrients: green spot algae is commonly considered PO4 deficiency, so you dose it, regardless of measurement. Holes on leaves are too little K, so you dose more of it. Tom Barr always points to high and stable CO2 first when trouble shooting, so need at least kH and pH kits to ensure stable numbers (since DIY isn't stable with multiple bottles, only less unstable), while not hurting fish. You'll need the massive "reset" pwcs. Its playing with fire as you can't get an idea of uptake or excess without the kits, so more than one pwc/wk is a good idea. Suggest you read as many of Tom Barr's posts as possible before considering this: best would be a subscription to barrreport.com but it costs, or search various plant forums for username "plantbrain". Just throwing it out there.

I dig your tank.

 

[greenmaji]

EI= enviromental intelligence: nice... It would be wise to be aware of all of the E indicators of defecencey.. such as the holes in the leaves being a E indicator of the need for more K. Is there a list of these to help tetrin out? And if CO2 needs to be held as a constant then testing would be a nessisity.. unless of course its a non CO2 injected tank ie 2wpg or less.. not the case here though... I really like the 40 breeder! super nice tank!

This method sounds good with a combination of the ideas of no-tech... sounds like a possible project... everyone gives me too many ideas! Thanks

BTW nice GBR!

 

[malkore]

I've not had problems with loaches, clowns or yo-yo's, ever touching my plants. I have heard of other people's clowns abusing plants...but I feed sinking algae/spirulina tabs, which I think gives mine all the roughage they need.

 

[tetrin]

green spot algae is commonly considered PO4 deficiency, so you dose it, regardless of measurement.

czcz, thanks a lot for the input. i have been adding a wee bit of KH2PO4 since last week. i read somewhere that the GSA is an indication of how much micros to add (if you get too much, you cut back). but that's probably when you know its not caused by PO4. i also do 50% pwc's.
and i really love your tank. i added brazilian pennywort(Hydrocotyle Leucocephala) after you ...

greenmagi, the tank is slightly better described as low-cost tech, than a low tech. a real low tech would be one that BrianNY has or the 10g TankGirl is working on . thanks for your comments, but believe me, you'll find a thousand things wrong with it if you look close enough! BTW, the ram is a bolivian ram, my friend (the photographer) is very good with his camera...

malkore, i used to feed the little piggies algae discs once a day, i upped that to twice .

but the plants are really responding to fertilization, only downside is the algae and the holes :x . but i'm going to continue tinkering with the PO4, K and micros till i get a perfect match .i have started keeping a log, and will try and play with one parameter at a time. the 10g i have is working fine till now (post some pictures later). i'll let you guys know how it turns out...