How much Excel in lower light?

[trennamw]

I started fertilizing and using excel in my moderately planted tank, which is low to mid light level I think (crypts do well, hygro August. Is not growing but is very green...)

But I had a lot of melting and stuff and the plant guy at the LFS said I was overdoing the excel.

So of course I come here for varying opinions on how much is the right amount!


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[PerfectDepth]

In my low-light 10 gallon I started off doing a half-dose, 0.4 mL, every other day. I figure I actually only have between 8 and 9 gallons due to displacement. Now I've cut back to just 1 or 2 drops daily, which should be somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4 dosage per day. It's hard to measure exactly with such a small amount.

I also don't follow the directions on the bottle that say to dose more after a water change. I've been adding about the same amount every day, 6 days a week, skipping water change day. I've only been using Excel for a few weeks now, but I'm still getting good results with a smaller dosage, so I think I'll stick to it for a while and see how it goes. I don't want to over-do it, and I know they claim it's totally safe but I'm still a bit wary of excel/glut in general.

 

[azmodan]

A lot of it will depend on your actual lights and your plants (the type, how many you have, etc). If your plants are looking healthy and you're not battling any algae issues then you're probably doing ok, but as you add plants and as your established plants continue to grow you'll likely need to increase your dosage (and adjust your ferts). For example in my medium lit heavily planted 10g I was dosing more than 1 ml per gallon without any ill effect to my livestock. The melting you mentioned, is it specifically the crypts? Crypts are notorious melters when it comes to things like being moved and so forth, but it could also be a nutrient deficiency. Care to fill us in on more about your ferts, lighting, and how much Excel you've been using?

 

[BBradbury]

Your Plants

Hello tren...

The planted, dark green aquatic plants need only low to moderate light and are naturally slow growing. The organic material that falls to the bottom from the fish and plants will dissolve and nourish these plants. Add regular water changes and they'll grow very well.

The light green plants need much brighter light. Moderate light isn't enough to sustain them, for long. You'll need to up your lighting and adding a CO2 system will help.

Just one reporter's opinion. You're the "Head Tank keeper".

B

 

[Sk3lly]

Hello tren...



The planted, dark green aquatic plants need only low to moderate light and are naturally slow growing. The organic material that falls to the bottom from the fish and plants will dissolve and nourish these plants. Add regular water changes and they'll grow very well.



The light green plants need much brighter light. Moderate light isn't enough to sustain them, for long. You'll need to up your lighting and adding a CO2 system will help.



Just one reporter's opinion. You're the "Head Tank keeper".



B

You forgot to mention how hornwort is a great floating plant........... Zzzzzzz ...... Zzzzzz


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[trennamw]

You forgot to mention how hornwort is a great floating plant........... Zzzzzzz ...... Zzzzzz


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Well it was news to me so I appreciate it!

The tank is a 29. Planted and stocked in April after a fishless cycle. Sand and gravel substrate.

I put in 5 tiny crypts, 2 anubias, and some java ferns when I started it. They were off Craigslist. I think crypt wendtii red, crypt undulata, and anubias coffee...something.

The crypts never grew, my nitrates were always 0, and my fish were seeking stressed with huge water changes. So I backed off to 30% a week and the plants started to grow and the fish weren't objecting as much to water changes.

The crypts have been oddly melt free. They spent 2 days in ziploc bags with tank water and formaldehyde from the seller. They'd been in a well lit, high tech tank. I lost 1 leaf after planting. I moved a few to a higher light tank with root tabs and and had 1 leaf melt again.

Then I moved, and had emergencies happen at the same time, and the crypts accidentally spent 4 days in a dark bucket with a little tank water. I planted them back in the 29, which is now getting a lot more light from a bright room, with root tabs. Lost 1 leaf to melt again.

Recently I added a gel pack of crypt undulata from PetSmart, and I was given 2 bunches each of hygro augustifolia and brazilian pennywort.

The light is a very low light Marineland LED. But the room is a second story with big windows and south and west exposure.

I've had a touch of algae, just tiny little spots. I have Otos. I do have a long photoperiod. I know I'm not supposed to but here in Oregom we plant medium light terrestrial plants in shade all the time, because of our longer days. Sure terrestrial plants don't have algae but the tank isn't having algae issues.

The anubias got brown spots in the newer leaves, and the crypt wendtii red started rolling up its leaves like sticks. So I added leaf zone, research suggested a K deficiency.

My tap water is practically distilled, I use Seachem Equilibrium and cichlid buffer to add GH, KH (both to 3-4 drops) and micros. Root tabs also have micros.

So I have N from the water (it's about 15-20), k from leaf zone, a touch of P from fish food and root tabs, and micros.

After a few days of 2.5 ml of Excel the crypts (the established ones) started to melt. And the leaves rolling up may have been after the excel also, that happened over time and I thought I was imagining it at first. LFS said it was the excel causing the leaf rolling.

The newer crypt undulata from the gel packs haven't ever melted, the week without excel, the week with, or since I started doing a quarter dose every few days.

I also don't vacuum much. I feed sparingly, and have MT snails and pond snails and ghost shrimp. The white sand floor looks pristine.

Filter is an HOB without charcoal. I used some seachem thing instead, I want to say purigen, that claims to be better about not grabbing plant micros.

That's probably TMI but I never know what's relevant!


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[Brookster123]

So don't use excel.. seems like you've got it under control with out it..
I don't dose any in my low light 10, heavily planted, one or two hits of pps pro a week. Very little algae and decent growth.
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[trennamw]

So don't use excel.. seems like you've got it under control with out it..

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Can I use it if I have more ferts? I was going to use a method I read on Barr Report, adding a few dry ferts and Equilibrium. It said I could add more ferts with Excel.


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[Brookster123]

Can I use it if I have more ferts? I was going to use a method I read on Barr Report, adding a few dry ferts and Equilibrium. It said I could add more ferts with Excel.


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Why do you want to use it? If it's low light with slower growing plants than it shouldn't require the glut. If you must dose..go 2ml/10gals.

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[trennamw]

I thought that a little co2, and more ferts, will help things grow faster, now that I have more light.

The crypts, hygro, and pennywort didn't strike me as slow growing.

I forgot I added 3 tiny sword plant babies too.

LFS plant guru said for low to mid light do 1ml or less per 10 gallon. 2 is what was melting stuff. Brookster would you keep it at 2 in lowish light? Do the plants just recover?


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[Fresh2o]

I have a low light tank full of crypts and moss (20g long with a Coralife dual T5 NO). Slow but decent growth. Most of the plants are runners that have matured. No excel or ferts. Occasional root tabs.


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[Brookster123]

I thought that a little co2, and more ferts, will help things grow faster, now that I have more light.

The crypts, hygro, and pennywort didn't strike me as slow growing.

I forgot I added 3 tiny sword plant babies too.

LFS plant guru said for low to mid light do 1ml or less per 10 gallon. 2 is what was melting stuff. Brookster would you keep it at 2 in lowish light? Do the plants just recover?


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None of those plants will be fast growers under low-light, penny wort maybe.. 1ml, of excel per gallon in med light is standard or .5ml or glut/metricide. 2ml per in your 10 would be highly conservative. You could take it to 10 mL gradually but your crypts would probably hate it. 2 ml seems good to me, it's there but not in your face. .

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[Fresh2o]

Forgot you have other plants in there as well.
Some the crypts were in another tank with higher light, injected CO2, and PPS pro dry ferts. Grew quickly and large. But not as nice looking.


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[trennamw]

I forgot, I'm using API co2 booster not Excel.

It says 1ml per day per 10 gallons, for a full dose.


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[PerfectDepth]

None of those plants will be fast growers under low-light, penny wort maybe.. 1ml, of excel per gallon in med light is standard or .5ml or glut/metricide. 2ml per in your 10 would be highly conservative. You could take it to 10 mL gradually but your crypts would probably hate it. 2 ml seems good to me, it's there but not in your face. .

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I think you're off by one decimal place.. Don't you mean 0.1 mL per gallon? The standard dose is 1 mL per 10 gallons, not per 1 gallon.


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[Fresh2o]

Yes the standard dose is that. Did that for many months with little to show in terms of plant growth. I currently dose 0.5 mL per gallon. Sometimes 1.0 mL per gallon. I do ramp up/down dosages. I don't have Vals or anacharis or other Glutaraldehyde sensitive plants. I also inject CO2 at 3 bps.


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[Brookster123]

I think you're off by one decimal place.. Don't you mean 0.1 mL per gallon? The standard dose is 1 mL per 10 gallons, not per 1 gallon.


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I know what I said. Labels are just that, directions are just that... excel ' s directions instruct a massive dose after a water change? It burns off in 12 hours so what's the point? I'm only speaking based off what I've personally done in my tanks, what works for me will not necessarily benefit all.

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[Mebbid]

As for the crypts, they honestly don't care about glut in the water. I didn't however see anything about root tabs for the crypts. With them being strong root feeders it's likely a lack of ferts in the substrate that's causing them to have issues rather than the glut.

I think you're off by one decimal place.. Don't you mean 0.1 mL per gallon? The standard dose is 1 mL per 10 gallons, not per 1 gallon.


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I too dose glut at 1ml per gallon. It's not dangerous at all to the plants, fish, or inverts and my plants use too much of it for less to be effective.

 

[PerfectDepth]

I know what I said. Labels are just that, directions are just that... excel ' s directions instruct a massive dose after a water change? It burns off in 12 hours so what's the point? I'm only speaking based off what I've personally done in my tanks, what works for me will not necessarily benefit all.

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I know some people add more than the recommended dose.. I was just confused and I wasn't sure what you meant by "standard" dose. Also, you said 2 mL per gallon is a highly conservative dose.. but we're talking low-light here and 2 mL per gallon is far from conservative especially in a low-light situation.


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[Mebbid]

I know some people add more than the recommended dose.. I was just confused and I wasn't sure what you meant by "standard" dose. Also, you said 2 mL per gallon is a highly conservative dose.. but we're talking low-light here and 2 mL per gallon is far from conservative especially in a low-light situation.


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He said 2 ml in a 10