I have the phosphate results!

[Fishyfanatic]

I just got the phosphate test kit today from Big Al's. I tested the 10 gal planted tank (where the plants aren't lookin too good) and the phosphate was reading at 1.0. The plants have been in there for about 2 or 3 weeks. Is it time to add the phosphate removing media or is that level ok?

Out of curiousity I tested the 29 gal tank because lately we've been having a LARGE amount of green algae all over the decor. The ship is now almost solid green. It is reading 5.0! 8O Is this normal? The instruction booklet says that ideally the level should be zero but that it accumulates in an established tank. The 29 is very established. Should I try and lower this level? The algae bloom has built up in about the past month and is now out of control. The lights really don't have that good of a schedule. Since I'm not here during the week, I am not here to turn them on and James always seems to forget. I have a spare timer that I am going to use on my 55 gal planted tank. Is the light the issue here or is it something bigger than that? I do 20% water changes once a week.

Also, I setup the timer for the 10 gal tank to come on at 8 AM, then off at noon until 1:30 then back on until 8 PM. Someone had suggested to give a break during the day of about an hour to an hour and a half for lighting. I believe it was either Tank Girl or An t-iasg (sorry if I butchered your name, I can't ever remember how to spell it) The plants aren't looking that great. Should I be adding something to the tank to help them along? They already have the tabs, but should I be adding some of the liquid chemicals?

 

[greenmaji]

The target level of phosphates in a planted tank it 1.0ppm..

the target levels for other plant nutrents are..
Magnesium 5-10ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
Potassium 20 ppm

you might want to test your tapwater to see if there is any in it..
I would try using big water changes (50%+) to get the level down in the 29 gallon..
Try reading all of the new stickies that malkore has posted to see what is out of ballance in your tanks.. and make sure that your plants are a good match for the amont of light your giving them.. http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_cat.php?category=1
Steve wrote a page to help deal with different algae types..
http://www.aquariaplants.com/alqaeproblems.htm
There is also a web-page by Rex Grigg about minimum light threshold for smaller than 20 gallon tanks.. it would explain why you might not have as much light as you might think in the 10 gallon..
http://www.rexgrigg.com./mlt.htm
HTH

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi Fishyfanatic,
You got my name right!

Are your tanks low light? (I think I remember that they are.) I would concentrate on getting the lights on timers and don't worry about using the ferts just yet while the algae is still present. In a week or two, hopefully, the algae will be going away and you can start the ferts then. A break during the day will be helpful at reducing the algae but the other nutrients must be in balance too. Like greenmagi says, I would do large water changes in the 29 gallon to lower the phosphate level, and don't worry about fertilizers in there just yet. Low-light tanks will be ok without fertilizers for now, until everything else (lighting and algae levels) is corrected.

My planted tank is one week old tomorrow! I have not been adding any fertilizers because I want to make sure I'm not getting any ammonia or nitrate readings. So far I haven't, and the plants are looking better than they did last week. I would say that getting the tanks on a set lighting schedule and doing extra water changes in the "green" tanks will be a good place to start. If you have some root tabs under the crypts, that's ok. Be careful not to stir them up with the gravel vac or you may cause more of an algae bloom.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

and make sure that your plants are a good match for the amont of light your giving them..

I have already verified through a couple other threads that I had started in the planted forum that the lighting that I have is adequate for the plants.

Are your tanks low light?

Yes. They are all low light. The only tank that we have altered the lighting in is the 150 gal tank and it is still pretty low in wattage. I have 120 Watts but that includes having 2 50/50 bulbs and 1 Actinic bulb.

I would do large water changes in the 29 gallon to lower the phosphate level, and don't worry about fertilizers in there just yet.

The 29 gal tank isn't planted. I was actually refering to the 10 gal tank. I probably didn't clarify enough. But I will do a large water change to try and bring that level down. I'll probably do a 50% change tonight then test the levels again tomorrow and see where they are at. I'll actually just do all the water changes tonight and see where the levels are tomorrow.

I tested the 5 and 150 gal tank, mainly out of curiousity. The 150 gal still doesn't have any algae. I wasn't worried that I would when I tripled the amount of wattage since I am using the 50/50's and Actinics. In reality, I haven't upped the wattage in regards to flourescent lights. I just have alot of Actinic. The readings are 1 ppm in the 5 gal tank and 2 ppm in the 150 gal tank. The 5 gal now has a little bit of brown algae forming on the glass. Ugh. It just never stops, does it.

I have a mini-test kit from Big Al's that is for planted tanks. I didn't get the big one because I read that it isn't needed unless you have high light plants, is that true? I think it only tests for 1 thing, but I can't remember what it is. I'll test for whatever it is and report back with results.

 

[greenmaji]

The excess phosphates are usually from not enough filtration or not big enough or often enough water changes.. refiring to your 29 gallon..
And according to the minimum light threshold theory, for small tanks, you might not have enough light intensity for low light plants... just a thought..

 

[Fishyfanatic]

We do about 15 to 20% water changes weekly in the 29 gal tank. It has just been recently that we have had the algae outbreak so tonight when I do the water change I am going to change the filter pad. The bio-wheel hasn't ever been touched, so I don't see any issues.

Following is the results from my mass test session. I am just uploading a excel sheet.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

BTW- I am thinking that our water company recently started using chloramines. There is no reason for any of the tanks to be showing ammonia, but they all have just a trace amount. It's not anything substantial, but it is still there. I'm going to try to get ahold of the new water quality report.

 

[Jchillin]

That's truly odd Fishy...NH3 should be non-existent in a planted tank, chloramines notwithstanding...you're removing that with dechlorinators. You may want to check the test results of your water with the local gov website. I had to do it for my tanks to find out whether my water was as soft as the test kit showed (it was).

I agree regarding the lights needing to be on a tight schedule...without it, you're simply providing more light than necessary, which allows algae to flourish.

Low-light plants don't require ferts...the nutrients provided by the lights and your fish should provide enough.

 

[Steve Hampton]

BTW- I am thinking that our water company recently started using chloramines. There is no reason for any of the tanks to be showing ammonia, but they all have just a trace amount. It's not anything substantial, but it is still there. I'm going to try to get ahold of the new water quality report.

What if any water conditioner are you using? And what brand of Ammonia test kit are you using...does it have one or two bottles?

BTW, it's my opinion that ammonia is the number one cause of algae in planted tanks...even a small short term ammonia spike can result in opportunistic algae blooms.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

The ammonia is present in all of the tanks but only by a trace amount. It's not really yellow like the 0 value, but it's not quite .25 ppm. I tried finding the water quality report online, but can't seem to find it. We are not running off of the city water supply, but a water district that is so teeny tiny that their business hours are 2 hours a day 4 days a week. I doubt they have a website. I'll have to call the water department on Monday.

We are using Tetra Aqua, but will be using Prime when we move into Marion since we know for a fact they use chloramine. I'm using the APF Master Test Kit.

 

[greenmaji]

when using a product like prime or other chlorimide conditioner it detoxifies the ammonia but does not eleminate it.. it can and will be consumed just like all other ammonia in the tank though.. Im thinking it might be the test kit..

 

[Fishyfanatic]

The test kit is new, I just bought it back in January. Could it be expired already? Its not like it was sitting on the shelf for years, I bought it from Big Als.

 

[Steve Hampton]

Does the test kit have one or two bottles? The single bottle kits are Nessler reagent kits and react with organics in your water when using Amquel, Prime, AquaSafe, etc...any of the water conditioners that "detoxifies" ammonia...this reaction causes the test sample to turn color giving a false positive. However, you can avoid the possibility of a false positive when using a water conditioner that "detoxifies" ammonia by using a Salicylate reagent test kit...they use two bottles. If your test kit is Salicylate based reagents then you need to look into why you have traces of ammonia in your tanks.

Anyway, I think the AP Master kit contains their Nessler reagent Ammonia kit...the one that will produce a false positive when using a water conditioner the detoxifies ammonia. I believe the AP Ammonia kit, the stand alone kit, is the Salicylate reagent kit. I could be completely wrong. I've got LaMotte kits.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

The AP Master Test Kit uses two bottles.

Could it just be that the level doesn't show as yellow as the card implies?

 

[malkore]

Nice chart.

Basically you want about a 10:1 ratio of nitrates to phosphates. you can adjust this upto 15:1 depending on specific tanks. your 29 is way off balance. The other tanks, not so bad...a little low on nitrate for the most part, which is pretty common for planted tanks.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

The 5 gal only has a trace of nitrate, but I think that's because it only has a single Male Betta and I do weekly water changes. Should I stop doing weekly changes and try to get the Nitrates up?

I just did a 50% water change on the 29 gal so I will test in a little while and see where the phosphate level is at. This tank isn't planted.

How can I increase Nitrates? Just don't do water changes as often?

 

[greenmaji]

In high light tanks you have to add nitrate.. I cant remember how much light you have on the 5 gallon.. maybe you could add that info to your sig. I forget how much light wich ones of your tanks your refering to and wich ones are planted....LOL :?

 

[Fishyfanatic]

My sig says that my 5 and 10 gal tanks are planted. The 5 gal tank has 10 Watts of Incandescent. I have a compact to put in it's place, but I have been trying to find plexiglass or acrylic to keep water from splashing on the compact. I can't find anything so far. I've already been to Wal-Mart, Hobby Lobby, and Home Depot. Today I'm going to Lowes.

The 10 gal has 15 Watts of Flourescent.
The 29 has 36 Watts.
The 150 has 120 Watts but only 40 Watts of Flourescent.

It would take up too much space in my sig to list all the details of each tank. And under the new UA, sigs are limited to 12 lines. Plus, I don't particularly care for long sigs and I dont want people to have to scroll through my sig all the time for no reason. I try to remember to uncheck the Attach Signature box, but sometimes I just forget and end up posting my sig.

 

[greenmaji]

I was thinking add the lighting on the same line but thats ok....
How well are the plants doing in your 5 & 10 gallon tanks? any alage problems in the 5gal?

 

[An t-iasg]

In your 5 gallon betta tank, you could add Seachem Flourish Nitrogen, for some nitrate. In my 5 gallon planted betta tank, I added 1/8 teaspoon of Nitrogen twice a week, and my nitrate was always 0. I'm going to try this for my new Nitrogen schedule: add 1/4 teaspoon on Wednesday, and then 1/8 teasp. on Saturday. I wouldn't skip a water change to get the nitrate level up. When I planted my tanks more heavily, I noticed that my pH level went down a bit. I monitored, and then compensated by mixing more tap water than RO water when I made up my water jugs. The plants consume some of the minerals in the water - also the buffers for pH and alkalinity - so regular water changes are important to replenish the buffers.

Generally, I've read not to fertilize planted, low-light tanks, or just fertilize with something like Seachem Comprehensive once a week or two weeks. But my fish load is so small - one betta - that I do find it helpful to fertilize. I have had a few crypts in the tanks before, but just recently planted a lot heavier, so I don't have my new fert. schedule finalized yet.