Lighting question

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lyquidphyre

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Joined
Nov 19, 2003
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McKinney, Tx
When do you have too much lighting?

I was telling a lfs worker my on going issues with my tank and when I said I had a 250 watt light, their mouth dropped and they said asked me if my plants were just fried and said that was WAY too much light.

I have a 75gal, 250 watt with eco complete and a (still broken) CO2 canister. My goal would be to have med.-low light plants that grow easily with out possibly having CO2. I have always battled with green water (its never bad, just tinted green) regardless of how long I keep my lights on, how much I feed, or having a UV sterilizer hooked up. And even when my CO2 was hooked up, my plants never really thrived.

The person at the lfs store suggested two long 48in strips of flourescent lights and a 48 watt bulb specifically for growing plants.

What do y'all think?
 
lyquidphyre said:
When do you have too much lighting?

I was telling a lfs worker my on going issues with my tank and when I said I had a 250 watt light, their mouth dropped and they said asked me if my plants were just fried and said that was WAY too much light.

I have a 75gal, 250 watt with eco complete and a (still broken) CO2 canister. My goal would be to have med.-low light plants that grow easily with out possibly having CO2. I have always battled with green water (its never bad, just tinted green) regardless of how long I keep my lights on, how much I feed, or having a UV sterilizer hooked up. And even when my CO2 was hooked up, my plants never really thrived.

The person at the lfs store suggested two long 48in strips of flourescent lights and a 48 watt bulb specifically for growing plants.

What do y'all think?
i run 4 48" T8 bulbs over my tank, i run DIY CO2, dose EI and have not yet found a plant i can not get to grow
 
lyquidphyre said:
When do you have too much lighting?

I was telling a lfs worker my on going issues with my tank and when I said I had a 250 watt light, their mouth dropped and they said asked me if my plants were just fried and said that was WAY too much light.

I have a 75gal, 250 watt with eco complete and a (still broken) CO2 canister. My goal would be to have med.-low light plants that grow easily with out possibly having CO2. I have always battled with green water (its never bad, just tinted green) regardless of how long I keep my lights on, how much I feed, or having a UV sterilizer hooked up. And even when my CO2 was hooked up, my plants never really thrived.

The person at the lfs store suggested two long 48in strips of flourescent lights and a 48 watt bulb specifically for growing plants.

What do y'all think?

rkilling1 said:
You simply cannot add a lot of light and not CO2 and fertilizers and expect everything to be alright. You are not the first one to believe this.

please read thru the 'Resources and References' Sticky at the top of the forum, if you have not done so already. some very good information is contained in there.

By doing so, you are in for a very bad experience. A ride that has driven some away from the planted hobby for good. High light, no CO2, No ferts, = ALGAE and lots of it. I can list many threads on here that people have had this happen to, so please take this advise. don't just throw some lighting on your tank and just think about the othet stuff.

HTH.

First off, what do YOU want to do? do you want the whole high light/CO2 tank or are you really set or the low to medium plant setup?
 
I forgot to mention even when my CO2 canister was working, I was having this same issue. My eco complete does not need ferts.

My question is, would it be advised to switch to a lower light ( two 48in flourescent lights with 48watts each) or should I try to work with my 250 watt?
 
lyquidphyre said:
I forgot to mention even when my CO2 canister was working, I was having this same issue. My eco complete does not need ferts.

who told you that? plants still take in nutrients through thier leaves. and eco by no means supplies the water column with enough nutrients to grow plants under your conditions. Once one the nutrients becomes limited you will have algae problems, ie green water. (EDIT: boy, this sounds kinda harsh, but it is not to be taken that way)

lyquidphyre said:
My question is, would it be advised to switch to a lower light ( two 48in flourescent lights with 48watts each) or should I try to work with my 250 watt?

In your situation, maybe. If you want to get the CO2 going again and start a fertilization schedule, you could enjoy a beatiful piece of art work in your house that is continually changing. but that is up to you. either way, high light or not, you can make it enjoyable. we just need to know which way you want to go.
 
Er, sorry. I don't fertilize anything because of my eco complete, but I do provide nutrients for my plants (dosing with supplements).

My CO2 has given me issues since day one and Im no longer sure what the problem is. When I did have it working, and I was dosing and all of that... only the low light plants would grow and even then they still have problems. Once I decide if I want to switch to a lower light, I will invest once again in getting my CO2 fixed but right now, even with CO2 my tank has never really flourished (which makes me wonder if I have too much light)

Right now being in college, I would really like a tank that easily grows a variety of plants (nothing to fancy/difficult).

Ideally I would like a floor of dwarf grass/micro sword grass (or both), tall background plants of possibly Cabomba and one other tall background plant, and corkscrew Val.. crypts... banana plants and whatever else I can get my hands on =o)

It's not that I don't want a challenge but right now with school I don't *need* too much of a challenge =o)

Hope all that makes sense =o)
 
could we get a run down of everything, if you got the time?

tank specs? pH, GH, KH, NO3's, ect... (any info you have)

Light system including bulbs?

CO2 system? (including reactor)

plants?

ferts that you are adding and that you have?

anything else that may be useful, thanks, Randy.
 
The tank is a 75gal with an Ehiem canister filter, eco complete and Jebo UV sterlizer attached.

My pH is 7.2, I don't know my GH or my KH, my nitrites are 0 and my nitrates were 60 but I did a large water change and havn't retested the water yet (the lfs tested my water for me earlier in the day before I did a large water change)

I have one HUGE 250 watt light bulb connected to a ballast thing. This was a used tank I purchased and so all the plant growing equipment came with it, and I really have no technical names for any of it because I didn't purchase it. The bulb itself has no writing (Ive checked) but I was told it was 250 (and I don't doubt that!).

CO2 system.. not a clue.. but here is a picture =o)
img_727183_0_3f3238c9c8dc2cb51a0182dced4eaf2c.jpg


The plants I have currently that seem to manage with out the CO2 (but don't entirely flourish) are java moss, crypts, dwarf grass, java fern.. and a few sprigs of cabomba that are barely hanging in there.

I let me tank go down hill recently and Im not currently adding any ferts (I got frustrated by the whole thing, and school has been keeping me busy). I normally just dose with various Seachem flourish products for potassium, comprehensive supplements, nitrogen and phoshporous.

I have my lights on a timer for 9 hours a day and I feed my fish once a day.

I have struggled with slightly green water since day one.
 
nice CO2 setup for sure.

does the light look something like this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produ...a_Gen_Page-_-Lighting&subref=AA&N=2004+113353

or this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produ...e-_-Lighting&ref=3969&subref=AA&N=2004+113353

?


as far as the rest of your set up:

I think this is very 'doable', but you would have to put in some effort if you want to go higt light/CO2. The rewards far outweigh the effort you have to put into it.

what happened to your CO2 again?

also if you are going to go high light you are going to need some fertilizers from greg watson.

Let me know what you want. As soon as you make up your mind I will post all the schedules and typical amounts of fertilizers you will need and which ones to purchase.
 
Im not totally sure whats wrong with my CO2. I have checked and checked and checked for leaks and have found nothing. I am wondering if the place I take it to (the beer barn) doesn't fill it up all the way... or if checking for leaks emptied it out more than I thought. It runs out anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks- it just depends. I think it has lasted at the most 3 months and that was when I first got it. Im sure it would have lasted longer if I knew what I was doing then =o)

As far as lights, I have the second one you linked. And it's good to know NOW that I should never touch the actual bulb, haha.

Aside from keeping up with my CO2 and fertilizing from Greg Watson... what else would have to be done to keep up my tank (aside from the usual tank up keep)? Like I said, Im in college which means time and money are always limited. I would really love to get my tank up and running to where it runs on it's own so to speak (and by runs on its own I mean, all I have to do is dose and feed my fish because lately it's been a pain to up keep with all the algae and such). Er, not so much runs on its own.. but the amount of effort I put into it, I see. Right now I have put so much time and money in it and it's no where near where I want it.

How much does greg watson typically cost?
 
lyquidphyre said:
Im not totally sure whats wrong with my CO2. I have checked and checked and checked for leaks and have found nothing. I am wondering if the place I take it to (the beer barn) doesn't fill it up all the way... or if checking for leaks emptied it out more than I thought. It runs out anywhere from 3 days to 2 weeks- it just depends. I think it has lasted at the most 3 months and that was when I first got it. Im sure it would have lasted longer if I knew what I was doing then =o)
That is something that is going to have to be looked into. You are going to have to look into leak checking the system again, LOL. Do you happen to know the flow rate at which you set it at? You are also going to have to monitor the the KH and pH while you are injecting the CO2 inorder to gauge how much you are injecting. (did you replace the seal between the valve and the regulator?)

lyquidphyre said:
As far as lights, I have the second one you linked. And it's good to know NOW that I should never touch the actual bulb, haha.
I just hope that the bulb is a 10000K bulb an not an Actinic bulb. I wouldn't think a single fixture would contain an Actinic bulb, but ya never know.

lyquidphyre said:
Aside from keeping up with my CO2 and fertilizing from Greg Watson... what else would have to be done to keep up my tank (aside from the usual tank up keep)? Like I said, Im in college which means time and money are always limited. I would really love to get my tank up and running to where it runs on it's own so to speak (and by runs on its own I mean, all I have to do is dose and feed my fish because lately it's been a pain to up keep with all the algae and such). Er, not so much runs on its own.. but the amount of effort I put into it, I see. Right now I have put so much time and money in it and it's no where near where I want it.

How much does greg watson typically cost?

I am going to list the EI routine and taget ranges for your tank taken from:

http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/62-estimative-index-dosing-no-need-test-kits.html (a good read if you have the time)

60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/4 tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp (15ml) Trace 3x a week
50% weekly water change

EI target ranges
CO2 range 20-30 ppm
NO3 range 5-30 ppm
K+ range 10-30 ppm
PO4 range 1.0-2.0 ppm
Fe 0.2-0.5ppm or higher
GH range 3-5 degrees ~ 50ppm or higher
KH range 3-5

http://www.gregwatson.com/DryAquaticFertilizers.asp

fertilizers to order:

CSM+B (Trace mix)
KN03 (Potassium Nitrate)
KH2P04 (Mono Potassium Phosphate)
K2S04 (Potassium Sulfate)
(I would also purchase (2) 8 oz twin neck dosing bottles)

When I purchased my ferts, I spent 34.47 including shipping. that was for all the ferts that will last for atleast a year and two dosing bottles.

The EI regime is just a simple way to maintain a range of nutrients within the aquarium, so the plants do not became limited by one nutrient, which would allow algae to thrive. It can be altered to suit your needs.

At first this seems daunting, to say the least, but give it a week and you will see that once a routine is established, there really isn't much to it. The best part is seeing the plants grow day after day.

(ps if my thoughts seem incomplete, I apologize, my current medical condition requires that I remain on narcotics, so my mind sometimes wonders. I have only been up for 41 hours now)

HTH
 
250-watts is not too much if you get your CO2 running an dose EI ferts. I have 324-watts on my 72g now (upgraded from 216-watt) and I have come to learn that if I keep my ferts and CO2 correct, I have VERY little algae problems. Virtually nothing to speak of. The upkeep is really with water changes and trimming / replanting plants, but I find that fun. So in a sense if you balance out your tank on the high-end, your algae maintenance should be reduced or eliminated.

If you want a low-light, low maintenance tank you should look at perhaps a 150-watt setup or less... LFS in general are full of yahoo's who are in no place to give you adequate advice, and their suggestion to go down to 40-watts of light, or that 250-watts would kill your plants is just crazy talk. That is a MH light you have there. They are typically much more expensive than your standard fair and more common in the salt water world. Having only one over 75g will probably give you lighting-regions in your tank. How high above the tank is the light and what is the light dispersion like? Better to plant high-light plants directly under the light and lower light plants further away.

My suggestion would be to fix your CO2 problem and get some Greg Watson ferts (not expensive at all when compared with seachem liquids). Rkilling1 gave you a good run down on all of that
 
While you certainly can grow any plant under that 250watt MH lamp. That much light needs CO2, and a solid fert schedule such as Rkilling is suggesting. That much light without those two things equals algae.
If you are up for it though, Greg Watson ferts are very inexpensive. And EI is easy, but you have to follow its schedule with some discipline, and keep up those weekly 50% water changes.

If you are not up for that that much maintenance, then perhaps a less intense light would be better for you. From that perspective there are many choices for a tank your size. I would not personnaly recomend the 48" NO fluorescents like the LFS guy did. But anything from a 2x 65w Compact Florescent, to a nice light like Dapellegrini reviews in this post would do well.
The nice thing about a light like that, is you can turn half of it off for lower light while you get things under control. And then, turn it all on someday when you get the CO2 and fert thing going.
 
Thanks for your help rkilling1 and everyone =o)

I think I will stick with my 250 watt light, some how get my CO2 canister fixed and then go from there with greg watson and such. I figure I will be graduating in December, so I should have more time to work with my tank and my plants.

Thanks so much again!

*goes to bookmark this thread*
 
The important part is getting ferts and CO2 in line. I have 520W CF on my 75G, no problems. Since my tank redo, I've cut the lighting down til I get more plants. I had very little algae with 520W up until I had to treat for ick and cut off my CO2. Then BBA took off like a rocket, and had a bugger of a time getting rid of it.
 
Some observations from your regulator picture:

Your cylinder looks like it is aluminum. The place where I got my CO2 said aluminum cylinders can leak more than steel ones, and mentioned something about the O-ring. The guy said that a lot of people come back to get an aluminum cylinder refilled after only 2 weeks. Ask at the place you get your CO2 if they can give you any tips for hooking up an aluminum tank to prevent leaks. Make sure to use a new O-ring every time you re-attach the regulator after a fill-up.

Is that a Milwaukee regulator? It looks like mine as far as I can tell. The right side gauge looks too high. In my directions it said it should be set at 10 on the inner set of numbers. You could be allowing too much gas to come out. Dial back the big knob - slowly! and it may take a day or two to stabilize. Don't try to turn it back all at once - go gradually. Re-check your regulator hookup directions too just to be sure. I got a troubleshooting page with mine.

I hope this helps - I only got my pressurized setup last week, so I'm not super familiar with it yet myself!
 
I am not sure if my tank is steel or aluminum, but it looks just like yours, and it has been running for 2 months now -- still shows almost completely full. I bought mine on recommendation from a guy I work with that uses the same one for his 300g reef tank. Completely different usage in his case (feeding a calcium reactor, not plants), but it usually last him 3-6 months growing massive amounts of coral...

Purrbox had a good post going on her move to CO2, including problems with leaking bottles:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=86379&highlight=pressurized

Good luck. Looks like you have some pretty nice equipment in general.
 
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