Lighting, UV and canister upgrade?

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fireman731

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Messages
184
Location
TX
Hey guys,

This is a fairly lengthy post with several aspects. It will be broken up into parts, first a background for those of you who don't know my set up and then the questions to follow. There is a short version at the bottom.

The background:
So some, if any, of you know that I have a 28 Gal bowfront tank that has been established for about a year now. I made a recent change a few months back from silk to natural, adding a piece of driftwood(or dogwood, cause it sunk pretty good after boiling) and adding amazon swords, a java fern and a moss ball. The tank has the standard 1 light bar hood, its the natural daylight 18" F15T8. I have a penguin HOB bio wheel filter that I stack with bio max, sponge, and polishing pad and a tank stocked with 6 cory cats, 3 neons, 5 black skirts, 3 snails and a bristle nose albino pleco. The pleco is about 5" long so I would say generally I have about 20 inches of adult fish give or take. The nitrates usually hop up to about 20-40 PPM a week and I do a weekly 5 gal water change, which has been difficult all in its own cause my tap water PH is really high so I typically lug 5 gal water jugs to and from the RO machine at the grocery. I add Prime to condition, then I typically add some liquid fert like flourish and some liquid c02 booster by API. Occasionally Ill throw some root tabs into my gravel/sand substrate. I wanted to start a low light, low maintenance tank that was planted, and I still do, but I want to push the limits now and go from low light to medium light and get it just right for my tank to where the plants have enough light to use up more nitrate but still not needing c02 injection or added nitrate supplements. I was thinking I could upgrade to medium and get away with it, but I was also worried that more lighting will bring on the algea, so, I was thinking of upgrading to a canister filter and adding an in line UV. The plants are surviving, but not thriving. I didn't want my tank to become an overgrown out of control bush, but I want my swords to grow tall in the back and they really aren't growing much at all. Other than the occasional dead/damaged leaf I trim off they are fine though.

So now, the many, many questions:
1) Does the bio wheel really take away from what the plants need with the surface agitation?

2) If I switched to a canister filter, adding a spray bar would be the same as the bio wheel mistake for the planted tank, correct? Also, the reviews I read on the fluval and the marine land canisters is plagued with leak horror stories, whats a good canister?

3) Would upgrading to a little more powerful light bulb, say from low to medium, give the plants more photosynthesis power to suck up more nitrates in the tank (the 20-40 PPM a week with PWC's) just enough to lower the weekly PPM to say 20 and overall reduce the amount of water changes needed weakly to lower nitrates? Also, the more light, the more photosynthesis, the less nitrates, the more fish you can keep, to an extent, correct?

4) If I increase the light from low to medium, can I still avoid a c02 system with the java ferns and swords that I have? Keeping it under 2 watts per gal but at least 1, because im sure right now im under 1 per gal. What is the wats on the the NDL T8 bulb I have?

5) Also if increasing the light but not the number of plants, should I consider a UV? I hear pros and cons, that it makes the fish immune system weaker?

6) I purchased a gravel vac 20 ft extension to attempt to make water changes easier, by at least reducing the buckets carried while syphoning, but without getting an RO system at home and adding some fancy expensive auto top, auto fill system plumbed throughout the house, what are my other options? I looked at the gadget that goes on the faucet to fill from tap without buckets, but I don't use my tap water, so that's a no go.

Short version:

Basically, I want to switch to a good canister filter that doesn't leak with an in line UV that has the correct wattage and flow for my tank (28 gal) while upgrading my lighting simultaneously to ultimately have healthier plants that grow a little quicker and use up more of the nitrates and waste while remaining without c02 injection and avoiding algae growth. I need help finding the balance.

Thanks,
Carl
 
I'll try to help where I can...

1) You're not using injected CO2, so the HoB filter you have isn't really a factor for you in that regard.

2) Again, you're dosing liquid carbon, not CO2. But to answer your spray bar question: You could lower it below the water line to reduce surface agitation. Ive never used a Fluval canister, but its my understanding that they're pretty good. I suppose there's always going to be a lemon out there. SunSun and Aquatop both make inexpensive canisters with built in UV sterilizers, but they're meant for 100+ gallon aquariums so the flow might be kind of high.

3) I would suggest at the very least upgrading the type of bulb you're using. There are some that might have the same wattage, but are utilizing a light spectrum better suited for plants.
The plants you have aren't going to make a huge dent in your nitrates unless you them very densely planted. Plus, you're doing less than 20% weekly PWCs. I realize buckets are a PITA, but larger PWCs (say, 50%) would have a more meaningful impact on your nitrates.

4) The plants you have should do fine with a halfway decent light and liquid carbon. What you'll need to figure out is how much liquid carbon to dose and how long you leave the lights on for. Start with 6hrs a day and then increase it by 15 minutes at the beginning of each week. When you start seeing too much algae, then back it down to the previous setting. Same thing goes for liquid carbon... dose the instructed amount at the beginning, but then gradually increase if you start to feel the plants would benefit. Switch to Flourish Exel if you're able to. I think its a little more concentrated than other brands and it also acts as a mild algae inhibitor. Lastly, some liquid fertilizer twice a week would help as well. Flourish Comprehensive should fit your needs. The Swords will also need root tabs. The ones you get at the store usually need to be replaced every month.

5) Ive never heard of UV sterilizers having any kind of impact on a fish's immune system. Keep in mind, however, that it will only affect algae particles that are floating in the water column. It wont do anything to prevent algae from growing on surfaces inside the aquarium.

6) Im a little confused at this. If you're not using tap water or RO water, what water ARE you using?

Summary:
Don't discount Fluval filters just because a couple of folks had bad experiences. The vast majority of canisters of every make and model do not have some inherent flaw that means that they leak.

I dont think a UV sterilizer does what you think it does, but if you still want one you'll need to figure out your canisters flow to find the one that will work best for you.

Upgrading your lights is a good idea. Since you have a florescent light, you'll need to replace it about every 8 months (they get less effective over time). Having healthy plants is about finding the balance between light, carbon and fertilizer. And since every tank is different as far as what kind of plants and how many, there is no simple answer. Its just a lot of trial and error until you get it dialed in.
 
Well I have had a 10 gal and this 28 gal for 1-2 years, both have the same 1 bulb t8 florescent light. I run them on a timer from like 8a-8P for about 12 hours a day. I have NEVER had an algae bloom in the water column. but I do keep snails and plecos that clean anything that does grow off the walls of the tanks. I replaced the old natural daylight T8's with some 15 watt aqueon floramax bulbs for the time being. I might add a second light to the 28 gal. The swords grow a lot better in the 10 gal, I think cause its ovetr 1 watt per gal and its not as deep of a tank. I do use root tabs, and liquid ferts every week. the water changes I just change 5 Gal a week, I lug two 5 gal buckets to the store and use their machine and lug the buckets back to fill the tanks.
 
Sorry, I should've been more specific about the longevity of florescent bulbs. Its not that they stop working, but rather that they stop providing the kind of light needed for plants to preform photosynthesis effectively.

Whats going on with your tap water that makes it so that you cant use it?
 
Coyne has totally nailed this. +1 to everything he/she said, especially:

Fluval canisters are very good. I'm not sure where you heard those stories but those are some top notch canisters. Mine is very good, completely silent, no leaks, etc., etc.

The spray bar/bio wheel really won't affect you.

In my opinion a UV sterilizer won't do you much good. Most of the algae you'll find is on surfaces like glass or rocks.

What exactly is the pH of your tap? Make sure you aren't using pure RO water by the way. I would mix 3/4 RO and 1/4 tap or something, depending on your tap levels.

Yes, you should replace that bulb and aim for something higher. How tall is the tank?

Plants won't make much of an impact on nitrate levels, except a few like frogbit, hornwort, and anacharis. Get some of those if you want to decrease your nitrate levels. But really, you should be doing larger changes than that. I'd aim for 25-50% water changes.
 
I don't think it was stressed enough that RO water is not good for fish tanks it lacks dissolved minerals that plants and fish need I suggest finding the ph of your tap water and adding buffers to bring it to the desired level.


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I use the API master test kit and use the high range PH and my tap is still off the charts. It's really slimey out of the tap idk if that means it's soft or hard?


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I tried all kinda of PH down chems from LFS and nothing. The machine water from the store is a mix with added minerals


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And the UV I would like to have to run on the 10 gal betta tank I have two ADFs with her and I think the worms for the frogs gave her a parasite iv tried treating with meds and no luck I was looking at the little green killing machine one they sell but don't know if it's strong enough for parasites.


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Slimy?! Is there fracking in your area? I don't know why your tap water would be slimy except for that reason. Maybe fill a bucket with it, dechlorinate it, and let it sit for a day. I don't know see what happens I guess. That seems really weird. Oh well just make sure to remineralize your RO water or mix with part tap. You might need to buy an RO machine. Can you drink your tap water? Or is it unsafe?
 
I can drink it. It's not like.. Slimey.. It's just when you wash you still feel wet and soapy after. It's also a brand new house


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I can drink it. It's not like.. Slimey.. It's just when you wash you still feel wet and soapy after. It's also a brand new house


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Hmmm thats weird. Any fracking near you? I wouldn't put it in your tank if you think its bad.
 
ImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1407620030.230346.jpgImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1407620044.699773.jpg

Blue is reg PH on left over 7.6= off the chart and purple on right is high range PH 8.8+ off the chart. I have tried Proper PH powders and liquids. Nothing.


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Actually looks about 8.3 to me. Right between 8.2 and 8.4. Its hard to tell with these tests. Check your city's water report, it should tell you.
 
I couldn't find it on the city water report. But I just started mixing the machine water with 1/3 tap water. Upgraded lighting to dual T5, 1 6.7K daylight and one color max both 14 watt so I'm up to 28 watts so 1 WPG as opposes to the 15 single T8 at about 0.5 WPG haha and I'm increasing liquid fert and carbon dosing to twice a week now instead of once. I think I opted out of the UV but I got some purigen to try and still undecided on the filter.


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I can drink it. It's not like.. Slimey.. It's just when you wash you still feel wet and soapy after. It's also a brand new house


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This is classic sign of hard water I would suggest (if its within your means) putting in a water softener


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Well hard water just means it has lots of minterals in it right wpuldnt that be good for the plants???
 
If your water is super hard then it probably won't be good for plants or fish. A GH of 6-10 is good for planted tanks IMO
 
Well I guess ill have to get a test kit and test it. The master API kit I have doesn't do hardness. I'll keep you updated


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I have Hard water and high pH where I live as well. My pH is in the 8.2 - 8.4 range. Its been a while since I tested my GH and KH, but they were both in the mid to high teens if Im remembering correctly.
Its not ideal (unless you have African Cichlids), but its not the end of the world either. Most fish and plants are able to adapt.
 
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