Need help figuring out where to go from here.

[exodus]

So I got my tank setup, running, and cycled. I got a few plants and some rocks in there too, but now I really don't know where to go from here.

Basically, here's my setup as of now:

55g kit from walmart
stock aqua-tech filter
~1.5 bags of PFS
lighting upgraded to 2.5wpg, running 1.25 (1 bulb) until I get CO2.

I'm really looking to have a medium-high light setup here. I know the filter needs upgrading, I'm going to need CO2, but the one thing I cant figure out is the whole plants/feeding thing.

As usual, I'm trying to keep everything as low-cost as possible, which is why I went with the PFS. But now that I read about it, a lot of people say that PFS doesnt work well for heavy root feeders, which I know I'm bound to throw in there at some point. Then I ask myself, do I need to redo my substrate, or can I just use root-tabs or something similar?

I really don't want to have to track down eco-complete, but are root-tabs even a viable option for a medium-high light tank?

Another thing that has had me confused, is when adding fertilizers becomes necissary, and basically I cant figure out what would be the simplest, yet most cost effective route to go with that. Can anyone provide some suggestions?

I've been thinking about this all day, and I think the best upgrade route is -
1) Pressurized CO2
2) Lighting (which is already done, just running at 1/2 capacity to fend off algae)
[add most plants here]
3) Nutrients
4) Filtration upgrage (canister over stock HOB)

From what I've read here, that's what I'd guess the best way to go would be. If plants dont have any nutrients available in the water for a period of a few weeks or so inbetween upgrading, their growth will just be stunted, correct?

But then that still brings back the question of substrate quality.

I guess this is just kind of me jotting my thoughts down and trying to bounce ideas off you guys, but really, if anyone can offer some good suggestions/advice/pearls of wisdom, please feel more than free.

Planted tanks seem to have an extremely steep learning curve 8O

TIA though!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Actually, planted tanks really aren't all that tough. The only tough thing I'm dealing with is algae control.

For starts, I would recommend a cannister filter for the 55G. You can either do the XP2 or XP3, using the spraybar. Or the Fluvals or Eheims as well, but I have no experience with them. Also, with the cannister, if you want to remove the heater from visibility, you could get an inline heater and hook it inline with the cannister output.

For CO2, I'd recommend the Milwaukee setup. Then get your tank locally, as you can get them already full. If getting them online, they will be empty because they cannot ship filled tanks. Plus when getting it locally, it will already be inspected as well.

As for dosing, depending on how densly planted and your bioload, you may or may not need to dose nitrogen or phosphates, but would be good to dose potassium regularly, as well as trace elements. So when you start, just watch your parameters, and dose only if needed.

Lastly, lighting. If it's CF lighting you have, then you will probably have more light than the w/g calculates it to be. So be prepared. What kind of light is it? Total wattage?

 

[exodus]

I have an XP2 in the budget for sometime in the near future, so that will be taken care of in time.

I've seen the Milwaukee setup on ebay for aorund $90, which doesnt seem too bad considering it comes with everything you need except the tank. I also know of a place to get tanks locally as my dad frequents the welding supply shop quite often. I'm pretty sure I've got the CO2 stuff down, its just a matter of finding the money to trade for the goods.

At the moment my tank is lightly planted, so I havn't been worrying about any dosing. Probably the best way to go about finding out when and what to dose would just be to grab test kits for all the nutrients and monitor the levels, and suppliment when necissary, no? I think why this is being so hard for me is that I'm trying to predict and expect everything to come, instead of just watching what is going on.


The lighting in the tank is 2 T8 32w 2xODNO lighting, which I think comes out to around 136w when both are running. But as mentioned before, I took one tube out so I dont have any algae blooms without CO2.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Cool, sounds like you have a good start.

Besides the normal test kits for ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, you should also get a kh test kit and a phosphate test kit. The phosphate and nitrate kits aren't really too awfully accurate, but get's you in the ballpark anyways. Or if you did come up with extra cash in the future, could get the LaMotts Nitrate and Phosphate kits, which I heard are much better. But they also have a heavy price tag as well, but well worth it for the serious planted tank enthusiast. I'm looking at getting them as soon as I get the extra money.

All other kits, such as iron and others, are near worthless. Wouldn't get them, unless you get like the Hagens Master Test Kit, which comes with them anyways. I never test for them, as they are not accurate. I just got the Hagen Kit for the gh and kh tests, as well as the nitrate. Easier to read than the AP Nitrate test kit.

As for the CO2 system, that's where I got mine, on Ebay. Then after a few weeks of having it, I decided to invest in the ph controller as well, so I can leave mine on 24/7.

Lastly, I think for dosing, watching your tank is probably the most valuable asset. For me, trying to test, dose, test, dose, has been really tough, and probably the reason for my algae. My algae seems to be starting to taper off now, as I maybe dose a little nitrogen maybe once a week, and have stopped phosphate dosing, as my test kit reads 1ppm consistantly. Now I just need to get the greenwater under control, but it's not bad at all. Takes 3 days to develop, then I do a PWC to clear it up a bit. So, use the test kits to help give an idea as to where it's at, but let the plants tell you the real status.

 

[exodus]

All great info.

My test strips already have a test on them for GH and KH, I'll pick up a phosphate test kit when I go to apply at the LFS tomorrow for a job.

Now for the last question that I really have no idea about-
Will PFS be a viable substrate, or am I looking at mixing it with a plant substrate? Are the root-tabs worth it, or more of a gimmick?

Thanks for the help sofar

 

[Purrbox]

You should be fine using root tabs in your substrate. You could even make your own if you wanted. The most cost effect way to go on the ferts would be to get them from www.gregwatson.com. You'll want CSM+B, KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4. You'll need to go by your plants to determine if you need to up the dosing on Potassium and Micros, since there isn't a hobby grade kit available that measures these nutrients accurately enough for our uses.

Oh and ditch the test strips. They are notoriously inaccurate. Get some liquid reagent test kits instead.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Check my previous post, I added more info.

 

[exodus]

Well, the stickies are now starting to make sense

Another CO2 related question - My pH is ~7.8 which is a bit high for my taste, when I start injecting CO2 is there any chance it'll drop my pH a bit?

 

[Purrbox]

Short answer. Yes.

That's why you can use results from your KH and pH test kits to determine the amount of CO2 in you tank. The KH remains the same while the pH drops in relation to the amount of CO2 in the tank.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Also, get liquid test kits. Stay away from test strips, as you need something more accurate to tell you exactly where you sit with the CO2 injection. That's why you need the kh test kit. If you know where your kh and ph are, it will tell you where you sit as to how much CO2 you have. If you don't know where the site is, here's where you can find it:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

You can also download the Planted tank calculator here, which has calculators for the CO2 levels, as well as the calculator for dosing:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_aquacalc.htm

Yes, when you inject CO2, your ph will drop exponentially. That's the reason you need a good kh test kit and not the dip stick. You want to keep the CO2 levels between 25-35ppm, IMO. Using the calculator, you will see where your ph goal will be.

 

[rich311k]

It will drop your PH quite a bit. But dont worry it wont hurt your fish since your KH will stay even. My tap is 7.6 with CO2 my ph is 6.6 (hoping to get it a liitle lower) my KH is a steady 60ppm.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

And yes, read the stickies, read the stickies, read the stickies, read the stickies. Read them once, twice, three times. They have the most excellent information you will ever find. A lot of time and effort has been put into them.