New 10 gal planted tank questions.

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Modius

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
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Jun 2, 2014
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Due to all the amazingly beautiful pictures of planted tanks on here and a few other sites, I have decided to try my hand at a small 10gal. planted tank (I plan to make it in to a shrimp tank but my biggest concern is the plants). I want to just start with maybe just two low light mosses and maybe a swords plant. I have no delusions that my tank look anywhere near as good as those I have seen without a lot of time and work. My goal is to make something like this.

ImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1404266853.040942.jpg



Right now the tank is only on paper. I have been reading guides, I want to set it up right from the start. I am finding some major contradictions in what these guides say. I did get a ton of good advice like to basically keep everything in a bucket for a week with daily water changes before putting it in the tank and to even boil the driftwood.

Filtration: This I got. From reading guides I have learned that since I plan to add shrimp later that I must use a sponge cover on the intake regardless of what system I use. Ok, good so far.

Substrate: The two I see most recommendations for are Flourite and Eco-Complete. The biggest complaints I see for Flourite is that you must rinse it like mad because it is very sandy/dirty and that it is very sharp and can hurt plecos. The biggest complaint for Eco-Complete is ph spike. I also saw talk of Onyx sand but saw nothing good or bad about it except it was also very dirty. I have also seen talk of layering substrate but what each layer was, was not stated. Many planted tanks that try to depict a Nature/forest scene have a separation path as well and I see nothing about what to use for those. Here is where my questions start.

1. Since my main plants will be mosses, what is better?
2. Is sand or gravel substrate better for mosses since most the tank will be a carpet of moss?
3. Cleaning, do you still vacuum the gravel with moss? I have seen them use the gravel vacuum as they trim moss to suck up the clipping.
4. Is there a substrate that plants will not grow on for use as a separation path or is this just something done by regular trimming?

I found this as a clever way to keep a separation and I might try it. They said they did this with some acrylic, a hot knife, and some silicon.

ImageUploadedByAquarium Advice1404267395.883445.jpg

Water changes: This I saw a lot of contradictions. One guide said not to do water changes because it hurts the plants but yet another guide and a maintenance video showed them doing a 20% water change. Yet, another guy said he had two HOB and a canister filter on his tank because the cleaner the water is the less you have to do water changes and you do not want to do them for planted tanks...

5. So what is it with water changes? Do you just do them less offten? Smaller % weekly? Not at all???

Lighting/Tank/Bubbler: I so not even own the tank yet but it will most likely come with a standard fluorescent light cover.

6. Is a standard fluorescent light good enough for low light mosses or will I need something more?
7. Is a covered or uncovered tank best for planted tanks?
8. Are bubble stones good or bad for planted tanks? I have seen a guide say they are but then see several in planted tanks.

Sorry for the long post and if it seems I am asking a lot of questions but these are the things I need to know before I can buy anything. As I said this tank is only on paper right now and I want to make sure I start out right the first time.

Thank you greatly to any one who helps answer my questions in advance.


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I think you need to do you're own research and come back to it. Most of this stuff you should already know. The hardest part is finding a balance to keep everything happy in the tank. You're questions are about everything, so I suggest you read more and figure a lot of this out for yourself before getting into it. YouTube has lots on how to do a planted tank. Google does too, so take the time to read up and see for yourself. Somethings work better for others.
Good luck!
 
Did you actually read my post???

I have been doing a ton of research. That is the issue. In Alice in Wonderland there are two door knockers. One always tells the truth and one always lies... This is what I feel I am dealing with when I view these guides.

As I said in my first post.

One guide says you do not want a bubbler in a planted tank. <-> The video guide on YouTube shows a bubbler in his tank.

One guide says no water changes it damage the plants. <-> The video guide on YouTube says do water changes offten.

Anyone can write a guide, I do not know shite about aquarium plant care and I can write a guide and claim it's the perfect plant care guide, does not make it true. Does not mean any of these guides are perfect as well. Guides also do not cover everything.

Google "aquarium plant guide" and you will see my point, there is no end to the sites and videos.

You would think you people would be more helpful to people getting into the hobbie. I am just asking to be steered in the right direction. There are things I need to get right from the start unless I want to drain and start over after everything is dead.

I did not expect a site titled "Aquarium Advice" to be so antisocial and miserly with help and advice. I have had several aquariums over the years but never tried real plants before. Does being an aquarium plant newbie make me unworthy of help or something?



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I say read through the build threads of the tanks you like, most people go through the set up and maintenance routines (in fact a lot if the time it's on the first page). Also after reading their thread, if you still have a question ask them :) most people on forums like this are more than willing to talk all about their set up.
 
That is actually good advice, thank you.

But I am still just saying to all the people who are taking the time to read this to please just take a few seconds more to say something more like:

"Oh hey, to answer 1 & 2 if all you want is a moss carpet don't really need those plant substrates."

Or

"1. My plants did better when I changed to eco-complete so if your going to add more plants it would be good to start with it."

I swear if you help me I will not show up at your front door asking you to come to my house and setup my tank for me.
 
It's a bit of a dead time on the forum right now, but there are quite a few great fw keepers on the forum that I'm sure will have answers to your questions when they get in just give them time. It's been years since I've kept a fw system and I don't want to give you antiquated advice, but if you wanted to turn that 10 into a nano reef then I'm your man ;).
 
I will try to answer your questions but not necessarily in order.
Setting up a moss carpet may work better using a grid or mesh like material. Moss will cling to individual gravel grains but that will not hold the moss down securely. Tying it to a structure using string or fishing line will hold it down. That being said, it does not matter what substrate you use. IMO plant specific substrates might be a waste of money for non-rooting plants such as mosses, java ferns, and anubias.
A laterally spreading moss (such as willow or java) will stay lower and more kept looking than a vertical moss such as flame moss. You could use flame moss but there will be quite a bit of maintenance keeping it trim.
Like most planted tanks, vacuuming the substrate may not always be possible since some or most most of it will be covered with plants. However, you can still vacuum the moss. You will be surprised how much dirt gets trapped in it.
A standard t-8 fluorescent should do although growth will be slow. I'd start with that and upgrade as needed. If you increase the lighting then you need to increase ferts and CO2 to keep algae at bay. The light-fert-CO2 balance is a whole discussion on its own.
Whether it's plant only or fish and plants, do your water changes. How much you do is highly debated on this forum. Generally accepted is "the more the better". I do about a 30% WC per week on my planted tank and my shrimp tank.
Air stones and bubblers are generally discouraged when injecting CO2 (which is typically not needed in a low light planted tank).
Using borders or trimming will be needed to keep the moss where you want or don't want it.
Covered or uncovered should not matter for a planted tank. Some folks don't use covers because glass can reduce the light output. But if you plan to have fish that like to jump, then it might be better to cover it. No cover will lead to increased evaporation.

Some times of the day and some days are slower than others on this site. Some of my posts get answered the next day and others get ignored. Patience is needed especially when there are a lot of questions involved in a post. Some readers might get overwhelmed with the number of questions and simply pass on it.
I just reread the original post about using a sword. Then yes, I'd go with EcoComplete (at least in the area the sword will reside). And plan on getting a root supplement (root tab, root pellet) as swords are primarily root feeders.
 
This is a huge case of quality of research over quantity of research. You seem to have gotten a ton of information from very very sub par sources. I'll try to answer your questions as well as I can.

1 - Eco Complete seems to be the most popular. If you have a decently buffered water supply then any pH changing effects will be minimal. I have rarely heard any complaints about it at all; and can honestly say I've never heard of a person having pH issues from eco complete.

2 - Neither are particularly good for mosses tbh. Mosses will do best when they have something to attach to neither of which is offered by gravel or sand. Like was previously stated, you will want to try mesh screen to anchor your moss down. That seems to be the best course of action for it.

3 - The moss will probably trap a fair amount of detritus so you will want to vacuum it from time to time. Gently.

4 - Nope, moss grows quite well floating so the only way is to trim it.

5 - It depends. A fertilizing schedule such as Estimative Index (EI) Requires a weekly 50% water change. More often than not, even if you're running a planted tank a weekly 50% water change is a good idea.

6 - I would think Java moss would be your best bet with a low power light. But yes, it will work.

7 - Either works fine

8 - Bubble stone are unnecessary. You can run one if you want but you don't need it. They are an absolute no no if you're adding CO2 to your tank.
 
BidRedsReefs10 - You were the first person to give a helpful reply so that puts you ahead of everyone else on the simple human kindness scale even if freshwater plants are not your thing.

Fresh2o - Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I had seen a lot of talk about using mesh for moss walls and such but not carpet, I will look into that.

I thought since most plant substrate is very dark I would add these bright yellow shrimp to the tank for contrast. For shrimp I read you need to use a bubble sponge filter. Since I am not using CO2 I see from what you said it should be fine.

Ahh, ok so you do still vacuum moss not just when trimming.

Lighting was a big question for me because so many tanks come with these cheap looking LED lights now. I looked up t8 lights so I know now what to get.

I was patient. I didn't check back till I saw I had got an email notice that there was a reply. It just took 5 days and nearly 130 views to get the first reply. Not up set about that there was a holiday. It irked me that the whole point of my post was guides saying do/don't do, yes/no, never/always and the reply was to just go read more.

However, you were a great help. Thank you again. I can now get stared getting eco-complete, sponge filter, and look into mesh for moss. Thank you fifth time.
 
Mebbid - thank you. Corroborating advice just what I wanted. Now I know I am getting started on the right track. Thank you.

Oh and ya, the net can be information overload when you do not know where the good guides can be found. Everyone is lost at some point. It's just nice to get answers just the same, no matter if others think they are too simple or stupid to bother answering.
 
Hi Modius,

Just curious if you already got the 10g? If not, the example photo you added as your inspiration looks to be a rimless tank. It's not that you have to spend the extra cash and go rimless or anything, but if you have the extra budget for it, I do recommend it. It will make the overall scape look more elegant as your example.

Anyways, for mesh, I recommend stainless steel mesh. It's perfect for creating a moss carpet. Check out Han Aquatics, he sells some pretty top notch value priced SS mesh made of good quality stainless steel that won't rust.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=654289

I've been using it in a few of my tanks..



I also use a sponge filter in my shrimp tank. I used to hate sponge filters but I'll have to admit, they are effective in shrimp tanks. I also use a small HOB filter with a sponge pre-filter for more filtration.
 
Look, I get that you were confused and yes it is frustrating, but the point of that first post was probably to tell you that most of this stuff can be found in previous threads. Getting angry wont help. The person who replied probably didn't fully understand your predicament, but calling us miserly and antisocial just made me want to ignore this thread.

Anyways, moss is pretty easy to grow so you shouldn't need to worry much about the specifics. It doesn't need a particular gravel just either rocks, driftwood, or mesh.

As far as water changes go its also not a big deal, it's mostly opinion about that. I would do at least 30% weekly but its your choice. If you just dose bottled fertilizer like Seachem flourish, API leaf zone, and/or Seachem Excel you can do anywhere from 30-50% its no biggie.

Welcome to the forum! I wasn't trying to be abrasive but there are lots of hardworking people who post thousands of helpful replies, spending hours on here without getting paid a cent for it, and they deserve our respect and appreciation.
 
Don't use java moss... ever... that is all..

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Brian_nano12g - Thanks. I have not bought anything yet because I was not sure what to get. I wanted to wait so I didn't get wrong things and need to run back and forth returning or mail returns. Rimless tanks look sharp, think that's what I will get, thanks. Was looking and seen a lot of the moss comes on the mesh, so that steel mesh would be great to break it up and trans plant it on so I can have it start to spread in a few areas. Once the tank is ready for plants I will order that same time I order plants.

Fishperson - Sorry if I offended you but I did not view my post 130+ times, maybe 5 till I got e-mail notice of reply, so while there are considerate and understanding people lIke you and the others who have replied, even Brookster123 who just said not to use java moss... ever..., there seem to be a lot who are not. Even if they did not want to answer my questions a simple link to a good established guide would of been a big help. I know it's not a matter of 2+2=4. It's a matter of 2+2=4, 1+3=4, 7-3=4. There are many ways to go about a planted tank but all I was trying to do is make sure I covered the basics for plants. With fish you can use marbles as substrate, toss in plastic plants, and use purple lights. As long as you feed them they do not really care. Plants on the other hand... As other people said there are a lot of debating post about what is the best or right way to do things or filters to use, or how much water to change out and how offten. Even some simple things had eight pages or more of posts arguing back and forth about it. It's a lot to try to sort through and yes very frustrating.


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Edit: thunderstorm, post got cut off when power went out and tried to save before I lost wifi.
 
Last edited:
Brian_nano12g - Thanks. Ahh, that last link is exactly what made me want to get into using plants. How some of you are able to just use some moss and rocks and make such stunning looking tanks. Many planted tanks as finely sculpted as a bonsai tree. I have the utmost adoration for anyone who can pull off a tank like those.


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See that's what I recognized in your inspirational posts.. IMO, it starts with a blank canvas. A rimless offers an elegant non-distracting one at that (if kept clean of course). Because there can be a very strong art component to this segment of the hobby, it takes time to learn. Not just simply growing a plant. But there's considerations of plant growth characteristics that dictate proper placement, then there's rule of thirds, using odd numbers of stones, negative space, focal point, etc. Less is more, usually. I only recommended spending extra on a rimless tank because that sets the stage for it. Might as well invest in it now if you feel the inclination toward it, rather than ending up upgrading to one later anyways. Just my 2 cents.

Also look on YouTube for inspiration. There's The Green Machine's James Findley. Also ADA's Takashi Amano. Aquascape TV is also a great channel. And lastly, Tropica's website has excellent inspirational layouts with plant names. From there you can research plant species. But of course that's for later since you'll be starting with easy mosses for now.
 
Brian_Nano12g - I looked up your 6 gallon, it is VERY nice. That's why I was so worried about getting everything setup right. I love the look of dwarf baby tears but since I am not using CO2 and I know it requires better light I was trying to make things easy on myself to start with low demanding plants. I need to find the right balance of light and all the different chemicals to use in place of CO2. I checked petsmart and saw the plants they had were small segments. So I figured I might grab a few kinds and see what does well so I am not set on using java moss it just was said to be hearty.


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Thanks for the compliment on the 6g. It started off as a high tech build with high light and CO2. I learned a lot off that nano tank!

Now it's on cruise control with low-medium light and low tech conditions. Mostly mosses, anubias petite, and shrimp. I do use a more expensive substrate called ADA AquaSoil. It has a pH buffering capability ideal for shrimp breeding. The PFR (painted fire red) shrimp don't really need the expensive substrate, but I'm eventually going to get some more touchy species like Taiwan bees or crystal reds in here.

As for moss.. I just don't like java because it's unruly and grows sporadically. Most mosses are hardy. I suggest any of the following over java: mini Xmas, Xmas, flame, peacock, weeping, fissidens, Taiwan, subwassertang, or Singapore.
 
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