new planted aquarium help

[Gyration]

Hello everyone.

This might be a long post, but hopefully it will provide some information and provide me with some help that I need. First off, the tank has no fish in it for now, all of them died, I know sad, but I am learning from my mistakes. There are supposed to be some amazon swords and some java ferns. But neither one seem to be surviving, the amazon swords are all yellow and deteriorating, and the java ferns are shrinking and the leaves are still green, but they seem to be wrinkling. BTW: This is my first planted aquarium, and it seems to be very difficult.

First this is the list of things that I have running on this tank.
It’s a 68 Gallon all glass bow front tank
I bought the stand and canopy with it, the canopy is off right now.
I got a Rena FilStar xP3 Canister Filter, an emperor 400 HOB and a H.O.T Magnum power filter.
I got two air pumps in it with about 6 different types of air stones, long, short, you name it I got it. But they are off atm. I am not sure if I am going to be turning it on or not. To be decided after some help is given.
I got a light strip. It has 2 fluorescent T8 or T12 bulbs in it. More about this later, because this is probably the biggest question I have.
I also got a couple, 3x2 litter and 2x3 litter DIY CO2 Generator (yes yeast and sugar). They are all connected together with only one entry point into the tank. I used those T connectors to connect them together. Also there is a Gatorade bottle to act as a collection place for the CO2 and so I can avoid a ticking bomb. Inside the tank there is a power pump, with a siphon filter attached to it and a pre filter sponge on the intake. The CO2 comes in and is released through a small air stone into the siphon filter where the water comes out of the pump.
I only have regular gravel, cheap gravel from petsmart. Nothing special like special gravel for planted aquariums.

Ok, now the questions that I have:

1. The light strip that I have can only support 2 x 30 watt fluorescent light, at least this is what I believe but I am not sure. I found some fluorescent VHO bulbs, but never found any explanation on whether or not I can use the VHO fluorescent bulbs inside my regular fluorescent light strip. If anybody knows, please let me know. Secondly, I have no idea if my strip supports T8 or T12 or both? It seems to be able to fit both without a problem and I have one of each in it right now without a problem? What’s the difference? If anybody know, any help will be greatly appreciated. Now the real question on lighting. I know this is definitely not enough light for my tank if I wanted it to be a planted tank, it will do fine if I only want to have fish in it. So I wanted to increase the light output of my strip, but I did not want to spend a bunch of money into a new strip. What’s the best and cheapest way to increase the wpg? if some of you read my old post on me getting 2 400watts metal halide bulbs, well I tried, but than the dealer ripped me off, sent me an used rusted one and it wasn’t a complete kit, therefore I returned it and got my money back. But from that post, it seems like overkill on lighting will do more harm than good to my fish and plants. So again, what is the best lighting for me and what should I do to get the desired wpg without spending a fortune? All help will be taken seriously and I will hopefully get some good input here.
2. Air stones: Yeah, I know with CO2 and airstones with regular air just doesn’t go together, but if I just remove all airstones and airpumps from my tank, won’t the fish suffocate and die? Is it really best to remove them?
3. HOB filters: I know I have two HOB filters on my this, but they should be ok right? Some have told me that the HOB filters on the tank, will release the CO2 thus making my CO2 injections ineffective? Does it really make that big of a difference? I really like the bio-wheel on the penguin and did not want to get rid of it.
4. Gravel: I already have WAY too much gravel in that tank, I did not want to get anymore special gravel for the tank, yes I know I bought the gravel before I did my research and now it is too late. I have tried putting flourish tabs and other gravel tabs into the gravel, but they haven’t seem to help the plants at all.

Ok, the plants inside of my tank:

The amazon swords are on one side and the java ferns are on the other side. The amazon swords are planted directly into the gravel, with some gravel fertilizer, mentioned above. The java ferns are tied down with a rubberband to a rock I picked up at the Caribbean when I was there on a Cruise. Yes I cleaned washed scrubbed and soaked the rock very well without any chemicals prior to putting it into the tank.

As I mentioned, the amazon swords are all yellow and deteriorating. I am not sure what else to do with them.

The java fern are shrinking and looking funny, not sure what to do with them either. But somehow they are still green.

As for fertilizers, I add chelated (however you spell that) iron and flourish. I also added some KNO3 and Epsom salt. I ordered some of the other stuff online, but it is not here yet. So I haven’t added any of the other stuff yet.

Anyway, the tank is still cycling right now, so I have no fish in it. There is plenty of nitrates, too much even, and there should be plenty of mg, from the Epson salt, cuz the water hardness just jumped thru the roof when I added the stuff. There should be enough iron, because the water is somewhat yellowish from the iron additive. CO2? Well I am not sure yet, I have ordered the test, but I have not received it yet. Once I receive it, I will give it a test and let you all know. I also got a liquid CO2, not sure what that’s all about, if anybody have heard of it and have any opinion on it, please let me know.

I think that’s it. Hopefully I didn’t bore anybody and hopefully you guys will all have some good answers for me.

Thank you all very much.

 

[Gyration]

Oh yeah, one more thing, now there is a lot of good green algae growing in the tank, even on the dead leafs of amazon swords. there is also some white stuff on my java fern leafs? What should I do?

 

[Guest]

OH MY Gyration 8O

You need a lot of help my friend. It's vital that you have a basic understanding of water chemistry in a planted tank. It would take 10 pages to try and help on this one. Seeing how I'm a terrible typer. I'm going to refer you to a couple of links:

www.rexgriggs.com
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/index.htm

Memorize these pages. Everything you need to know can be found here. It's going to be confussing. If you dont understand, ask. Good luck

 

[Guest]

First off you need to get rid of the air stones.
Second off DIY CO2 for a tank that large is an exercise in frustration at best.
Third your lighting situation is very poor. There is no cheap way to get more light over the tank. Check out www.ahsupply.com for retro-fit kits that will fit in your strip light. I will assume that your tank is 3' long, so the 96 watt kits will work great. If your tank is 4' long then look at the 55 watt kits. You might even want to ditch the strip light and just buy a basic enclosure from AH Supply and mount the kits in there. You really need to be in at least the 140 watt range with your tank. If you go much higher than that then you need to figure in the cost of a CO2 system also.

You have made a series of mistakes that have compounded each other. It doesn't make a difference how many fertilizers you dump in the tank if you don't have enough light. Light is where it all starts. Also you say that the water took on a yellowish tint when you added the iron. I can only guess you added around 10 too much iron.

Also the rock you have the Java Fern tied to could be messing with your water chemistry.

 

[malkore]

and let me just re-emphasize this: Lighting is NOT CHEAP. You don't have to break the bank (try www.ahsupply.com ) but the 'came with the tank' light fixture is barely adequate to light up your fish, let alone simulate sunlight for the plants.

I think that size of bow front is under 4 feet...measure the tank and if it's at least 36" you could do 2x96 watt power compacts...but you'll definitely need CO2 then.

I'd say do several water changes (10% at a time) to reduce your nutrient levels, since they'll only fuel algae, not plant growth.

 

[Guest]

If the tank does'nt have any fish in it. Why not just drain the tank empty and refill to prevent a massive algae bloom? The swords sound like they are gonners. The java, if savagable should get enough nutrients out of the tap until Gyration gets a better understanding. Just a thought.

 

[vega]

Continued from the previous thread...

I second Mojo on draining all water from the tank.
1. Just switch off the XP3 without draining out the water in XP3 prior draining the tank.
2 Took all air stones, CO2, HOB out. If you looking into planted tank, the air stone and HOB (bio wheel) probabily will not be use anymore.
Fill the tank with tap water and add the de-chlorine ACCORDING to the manufacture instruction. No need to add anything else into the tank at this moment.
3. Switching on the XP3 again.
4. Read the few article in this site and as mention above, probabily you can try krib.com too.
Also research on what type of fish you going to buy.
May we know what fish you are interested at moment?

No need to worry the cycle, as i think the XP3 will take care of it at this moment.

For normal planted tank setup, most ppl prefer canister filter. As for light, try to get at least 2 wpg. I would advise you to look into the CO2 only once the filter and light issue been fix. You should probabily make sure the fish is properly been take care of before look into having lots of plant in the tank. the java should make it as they are very hardy.

HTH

 

[Gyration]

ok, I went to AH supply and I ordered a 1x96watt retro fit kit and a bulb. Does anyone know if it will fit together with the lights I have on right now as well? Like I can just add the 96watt to the fixture in the middle of the two fluorescent lights that are on there already? Will that work? Will it fit? If anyone knows, it will be great!.

Getting rid of my HOB's, I am very hesitant to do that. The penguin works so nicely with the bio-wheel. And it does a much better job at keeping my tank clean than the canister filter for whatever reason.

I will probably start doing some water changes to the tank, now that the cycling is almost done. that way I can start preparing the tank for fish as well. I am not sure if the amazon swords are dead. The middle still looks green, but the leafs are all yellow covered in algae. Does that mean anything to anyone?

Hopefully my light will get here soon and I can install it correctly and at least get the light issue fixed.

The light strip is 3'. For those of you that were asking. And the tank isabout the same size, fits almost perfectly.

I will take all the airstones and airpumps out and put them into my other tanks w/o plants.

I am thinking about putting a bnch of livebearing fish in there, platties, mollies, guppies and swordtails. A combination of them, so they can fill up the tank for me and I don't have to worry about buying more fish. I will probably also put in some cory's and some type of algae eating fish. I still don't know what the best algae eating fish is, some say pleco, some say chinese and I am just confused. Maybe I can put in a combination of them, but I am afraid that the chinese will kill all my baby fry's. Any comments on the types of algae eaters? I was also thinking of putting a couple bigger fish, but I don't know anything about bigger fish. Some fish that's really pretty and colorful or something. that won't bother my livebearers. Any ideas would be great.

 

[Guest]

The XP3 alone will be more than enough to filter a 68g tank. You could always turn your HOT Magnum into a diatom filter and run it for a couple of hours once a week. Seeing how the Magnum is already paided for.

AH Supply makes a great light kit. With a 96w, that puts you at 1.4 wpg. Thats still considered low light. Your java will be fine, but most sword like a minimum of 2.5 wpg. I honestly not sure if the Swords would survive.

I think WC's is the most important thing to do right now. All those nutrients most be removed before a massive algae bloom. I personally would drain the tank empty and start over. At the very least, aggressive daily WC's are needed daily. If you mount that AHS light without getting the water under control. Your going to have the greenest water you've ever seen with that many nutrients.

Make sure you read the link posted above to get an understanding of why bio wheels and airstone are'nt used in a planted tank. Sounds like your geeting on the right road. Remember.....research, research, research.

 

[Guest]

The AH supply kit will more than likely NOT fit in your current strip light with the bulbs in it. It will fit if you remove them.

Take a few minutes and read my FAQ. You did not need to cycle the tank.

You don't want a Chinese Algae eater because they really don't eat algae and are very aggressive when grown. What you want is a Siamese Algae Eater.

Any larger fish is going to eat the live bearer fry. Simple as that.

 

[Gyration]

on man, I was really hoping it would fit together with the lights that I already have that way i would have 60+86ummmz whatever that is. I think it brings the wpg to around 2.2 or something.

And yeah, I will start daily water changes at about 20-30% daily after this weekend. I don't plan to put any fish in there for at least 2 or 3 more weeks. No big rush. Green algae tells me that at least something can live in there, it is a sign of hope for me at least.

 

[vega]

Since no fish and plant, why not drain all the water? I hope prior ordering any fish you did give a detail research on what fish you REALLY want.

I have seen a 2.5 inch panchax ate a 1 inch neon tetra in my tank. Fish will eat other smaller fish that fit into its mouth, that's the rule.

 

[Gyration]

actually there is still plants in there. As for the fish I wanted to get a couple of livebearers. Platties, mollies and swordtails or something. But the fish will come much later.

 

[vega]

The plant will be ok with new tap water.