New tank with green water

[dwayne.aycock]

Greetings everyone, I need some advice on how to proceed.
I have set up a 75 gal fresh water Amazon Biotype setup.
The tank has been up and running since 10 September.
It has live Amazon plants and drift wood.
It has one small catfish which was a stoeaway inside a piece of the drift wood.
So the catfish has been in the tank since 14 September and appears to be doing fine. I have no plans of adding any other fish until the tank has completely cycled.
The issue I am having is that my water is turning green....not heavily green but you can see it when looking through the tank from side to side.

I am not one to add chemicals for every little thing that goes wrong. I have UV (9W) sterilization, but worried about using it on a cycling tank. I am currently in the middle of an amonia spike. I have been advised to let the spike ride itself out....nitrite increase and drop then nitrate increase and drop. Amonia falls to levels undetectable and nitrite levels fall to undetectable.

Will the UV sterilization kill my immature bacteria as well as my algae?

I understand that water cahnges will not make a difference other than making the cycling process take longer.

I have a large 3 media canister filter (floss, charcoal, bioballs) output of 370 GPH. A 20 gal wet try filter with 4 media ( floss / bioballs / pete / charcoal) with output of 370 GPH and finally a 2 chamber polisher / scrubber with 2 30 micron filters.

Thanks for yout comments!
Dwayne

 

[RussellC]

I understand that water cahnges will not make a difference other than making the cycling process take longer.


To my understanding, this is incorrect. The bacteria you are attempting to colonize adhere to surfaces, particularly those in your filter, but also gravel, decorations, the glass, etc., but are not prevalent in any significant number in the water itself. Water changes really don't slow down the cycling process and are critically important, especially when cycling, to keep the toxins like ammonia and nitrite at levels that won't be as harmful to your fish.

As for the green water, it is likely algae, and though unsightly, poses no threat to the fish or the cycle. Try limiting the amount of light, especially direct sunlight if any, that the tank is exposed to. Completely 'blacking out' the tank by blocking all light for a couple/few days generally also does the trick.

Best!

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Thanks for the reply, but what about the plants? As they are new to the tank, won;t the absence of light harm them? Will the UV sterilizer solve the problem. It is part of my canister pump, so all I have to do is flip a switch. Can't hurt to do a partial water change which I will do this evening.
D

 

[RussellC]

You're right, the blackout option isn't best for a planted tank, for obvious reasons.

A UV sterilizer should help with the algae, and shouldn't disrupt your cycle. Again, the bacteria don't reside in the water, which is what the UV sterilizer sterilizes. Also, if UV sterilizers disrupted bacterial colonies, I doubt they'd be used in aquariums at all as they'd be constantly interfering with the biological filters.

Good luck!

 

[dwayne.aycock]

I think I have my answer...... I was reading a few of the other posts about green water and UV sterilization. The good bacteria are in the plants, gravel, glass, filters etc. UV sterilization will kill the free form algae in the water without killing the beneficial bacteria in other areas.
Seems like I answered my own question....just flip on the UV sterilizer.

 

[Rivercats]

I run a UV on my 220g all the time, so your right, just flip on the power!

 

[aqua_chem]

Ok, theres some bad information in this thread that needs to be put right.


Water changes will have basically no effect on a cycling tank. The vast majority of your beneficial bacteria are located in your filter, so they are totally protected from harm assuming you don't turn on your filter and flush them with chlorinated water. This also means water changes wont slow down colonization unless you bottom out on nitrogen waste, which is highly unlikely unless you've been doing a ton of water changes. This also means that they are protected from negative effects of your UV sterilizer. Feel free to turn it on to nuke your greenwater without risking your biofilter in the slightest.


Blackouts are viable options for planted tanks. Depending on the plant species and health of the tank and plants, you can blackout for as many as five days without significant long term ramifications.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Hey Guys, now that I am on the right track with the algae, I have some initial water test numbers that I need guidance on.
First of all I have a 75 gal tank as previously listed with excellent filtration and water flow; however after 9 days my water chemistry looks like this:
Ph is 8.0. This is the natural Ph for where I live, bit I have peat moss in a filter bag as well as drift wood for past 5 days and live plants (amazon live plants swords..java moss...java fern and just added frog wort today.

NH3 / NH4 is 8ppm

NO2 is 0.25.

Tank has one lone catfish that was a stowaway on a piece of the drift wood.

I added 7 caps of AmQuel (1 cap per 10 gals) to try to remedy the amonia problem.

Plants are doing ok, but I added a new light last night..T8 (48 inch @ 5000K). Prior to last night I had a T8 (4200K)

What do I need to do next?

Thanks, Dwayne

 

[RussellC]

I added 7 caps of AmQuel (1 cap per 10 gals) to try to remedy the amonia problem.

In my view water changes are the first and best line of defense when dealing with an ammonia problem, be it in a cycling tank or otherwise. Products like AmQuel and Prime can be a complement to that strategy, 'mopping up' any trace ammonia that remains, or neutralizing that which builds up between the water changes, but in my view, products like that aren't a replacement for water changes.

Good luck!

 

[aqua_chem]

Agreed. Dilution is solution to pollution. Prime is great for minor spikes or as a stopgap measure, but it not a fitting solution to nitrogen waste issues. At the risk of sounding overly critical, any fish in a tank with 8 ppm ammonia, especially one with high pH, is slowly dying.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

I agree, and that is why it was NOT my intention to have fish yet, but that facts are what they are.
Advice heard and understood....I will jump on the water changes ASAP.
Any other suggestions?

 

[dwayne.aycock]

ok folks so I did the following:
Did a 20% water change and used an ammo bag in the sump.
Waited 2 hours and tested NH3/4 again.
There was some improvement from 8PPM to 1PPM.
My plan is to do a 20% water change every 3rd day until I can get the NH3/4 levels to start dropping on their own.
Oh by the way, tank is at 80 degrees. 5DH and planted with young Amazon Sword, java moss, java fern, christmas tree fern and frog wort.
I am currently running a 9W UV sterilizer which is housed within the canister pump.
Lastly I am going to LED lighting with 1000K lumens as well as a 2nd stage (after sump) 34W UV sterilizer with water flow across the bulb flowing at a rate of 350 GPH.
Not feeding any fish...catfish that was a stowaway is living on fine algae growing on the glass and plants.
I know the chemistry of the tank is jacked up, but so far he is hanging in there with no signs of distress.

Just can't understand how I have such high ammonia with live plants and a fish about 1?2 the size of a tube of chapstick.

Your thoughts?

Thanks, Dwayne

 

[gman42]

Have you tested your tap water?

 

[dwayne.aycock]

I had my water tested prior to filling the tank. I have both well water and of course tap water. My tap water had better chemistry but was locked at a Ph of 8.0. I was concerned at first until i discovered that most tap water in central Florida is a 8.0. I checked with the place I plan to buy my fish and they too have Ph 8.0 water in their tanks. The fish born in Florida are used to 8.0 water. Cant explain the high amonia levels however especially with no fish. I am doing 5 gal changes every day (simply throw a power head with hose into the tank, add a 5 gallon bucket and flip the power button...5 gals in about 60 seconds...repeat process with treated water and back into the tank it goes..whole process takes about 5 minutes). I know small water changes is the way to go. Sure cycling may take a bit longer, but I would rather be right than fast.
Thanks,
Dwayne

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Update on "green water". After running the 9W UV sterilizer for 48 hours and doing a 20% water change, the algae in the tank is gone. Keeping an eye on the ammonia and changing 5 gallons every other day. The ammonia levels are beginning to drop...I am sure this will prolong the cycling process, but what is the alternative? My ammonia levels were at 8ppm, which is a very toxic environment for fish.
I will see where this goes. Anyone have any other ideas?
Dwayne

 

[Rivercats]

Your doing things right. Keep up the water changes, but I'd do it daily and I don't know what kind of plants you have but if you could add something like water sprite or even some floating plants they will help mop up all the excess nutrients in the water. When I set up my dirted 220g I did 100% WC's for 7 days, planted very heavily on day 8, and was totally cycled by day 10. The UV won't have changed anything in your cycling.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

I have the following in my tank:
Amazon Frog bit:

Frog bit is a miniature floating plant with shiny green foliage that is 3/4 to 1 inch across. Frogbit is a fast grower and works great if you need coverage in a short period of time. Frogbit provides cover for baby fish or shrimp & helps in cycling a new tank. They will also help keep your water clearer & cleaner​

AMAZON SWORD PLANT - LARGE 12"

This plant is ideal for use in groups for background placement - Makes GREAT center piece. EASY to grow - Requires Moderate + lighting. Can grow partially or fully submerged Works great for larger tanks Freshwater aquarium plants that help to improve water quality
​

The Java Fern is quite undemanding and easy to cultivate, even doing well in lowly lit tanks and without extra nutrients or CO2. The roots eventually attach themselves to the rock or wood.
When well adapted, it reproduces easily, and the reproduction is quite interesting: the daughter plants are born on the edge of the leaves of the mother plant and grow right there, clinging on it with their little roots. With time the daughters grow until they release themselves from the mother, and float around until they get entangled on something. The hairy roots adhere easily. - this plant is quite undemanding and easy to cultivate, even doing well in lowly lit tanks and this beautiful plant is also known as Echinodorus brevipedicellutus. It originates in Brazil and the mid to lower region of the Amazon River basin. It is usually utilized as a centre or focal plant in the aquarium as it gets to be quite large (as do some other Echinodorus species). It can easily grow to 16 inches in height and has light green, linear, lanceolate, and arched leaves which are 3/4 - 11/4 inches wide (2-3 cm). There are three veins extending from the base to the tip of the leaf and two less prominent veins closer to the edges. The first pair of lateral veins comes from the central rib, just above the base of the blade. The blade is much longer than the petiole.
This plant is often confused with Echinodorus bleheri which is the more common of the two plants. This plant does poorly in very hard water. It likes medium bright light, warm water and a medium fine gravel bed. Propagation is by adventitious roots or by runner. It prefers a pH of 6.5-7.2 and a temp. of 74-82 degrees F (24-28 degrees C).

Christmas Moss is as mysterious as some of the other mosses in the aquarium hobby. There is no consensus on its geographic origins and even the scientific name has a tendency to change. Its growth habits and appearance are just as varied. When grown attached to a piece of driftwood or rock, it forms triangular fronds in the shape of Christmas trees.


This moss is very easy to grow in the aquarium, as it will grow with almost any amount of light. Although not as hardy as the legendary Java Moss, it will survive with low light and no CO2. Growth will not be the ideal structure and will be considerably slower, but it will still live. As an aquascaping element, its uses are limited to covering hard cape (rocks, driftwood) or creating a moss wall. Shrimp and fish fry use it as cover and it is also an excellent source of food for both, harboring tiny infusoria (bugs). Overall, Christmas Moss is an excellent plant for covering hardscape, filling in gaps, and creating living backdrops in any aquarium.

Your thoughts?

 

[Rivercats]

Do you have alot of frogbit? I don't know how heavily your tank is planted but mine has about 5% of visable substrate. It's pretty much solid plants. I think keep up doing WC's. Are you testing for nitrite and nitrate also. That is what will show if your tank is cycling.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Tank with green water

"Do you have alot of frogbit? I don't know how heavily your tank is planted but mine has about 5% of visable substrate. It's pretty much solid plants. I think keep up doing WC's. Are you testing for nitrite and nitrate also. That is what will show if your tank is cycling."

I am showing some nitrate but not very much. The last reading was 0.25.
My PH is 8.0 because the PH of water in Central Florida is 8.0 I was about to try to lower it however the PH lock 7.0 can not be used if you have live plants. So the remedy the ammonia, I continue to do 5-10 gallon water changes every day. I don't think I can easily do anything about the PH, so in the long run I will just have to deal with it.
As far a frogbit, I do not have a lot of it yet but as I understand it is quite prolific, so time and space will dictate how much I have. currently my tank is planted with both real and artificial plants. As the liveplants grow and multiply, I will phase the artificial plants out. I thought I would have fish by now, so that is the reason for the mix of plants. My live plants are showing new root growth, so that is a good sign. There was some spotting and yellowing of my my swords, so I got better lighting and used a liquid fert.

I checked my ammonia last night after a 10 gallon water change / AmQuil addition and my ammonia had dropped from 8ppm to 1ppm; however as time passes it will slowly start to creep back up to 4 or 8 ppm. I have no clue what is causing it to rise. One very small catfish in a 75 gallon tank can't possibly be causing the problem, but rather helping it. I am a veteran here, so i know to keep doing what I am doing. My neighbor has a fresh water set up that has been up and running for several months, so I guess I will knock on his door and ask for some filter media and gravel. I didn't think I would need to do this, but I guess this is the best option.

I tried the bacteria in the bottle at start up, but 12 days later, I think my levels should look better than they are.
Your thoughts?

Thanks, Dwayne

 

[Rivercats]

Well if your getting nitrates you know your cycling but I've never used AmQuil before and am wondering if it is giving you false ammonia readings. I've heard of that happening with other products. You think maybe that could be it? I've been in this hobby a long time too and I've never had a tank cycle as fast as this big one did. I think already having nitrates by day 12 is still pretty good. But getting some seeded media is a good idea too, it sure can't hurt any.

Our water here isn't very good either. It has a 9+ ph, 13 gh, and 11 kh. It kind of sucks when you have to deal with that.