New to panted tanks

[PAwrangler08]

I don't know how much you know so I will give you all the info I can think of that might help you, so don't be insulted if I say something you already know lol. Both micros and macros need to be dosed, most times several times a week depending on how many plants you have. Because you don't have co2, it wont be as much as those with co2. Nitrates should always stay around 10ppm. Once you start dosing nutrients, you might have to play with the lights and dosing a little to get the optimal settings for your eco-system. For low light plants, 1 watt per gallon is good. Moderate is 2 watts per gallon and high is 3+ watts per gallon. You can find this out by a quick google search of the plants you have. Depending on what light need type plants you have, base that off how many light strips you get. It looks like in the picture, it would be moderate which would be two strips of 60 watts and make sure they are 6,500k, that light temp is optimal for plant growth. Co2 isn't needed to get a great planted tank. A lot of people do low light, low tech setups and low tech, high light setups with great success. However, Co2 is a good option if you have the money for it and plan on keeping this tank running for many years to come. Also, if you have the time for it. If you get Co2, your plants will be growing faster and therefore need more nutrient dosing, trimmings, ect. So if you travel a lot or are very busy,a lowtech set up may be best for you. Remember, you can always upgrade to co2 later on. I hope this helps a little.

That helps a lot. Thanks. Now you say nitrates should be at 10ppm. Long story short my tanks went through a mini cycle and got stuck in the middle of it and wouldn't complete. So I had .25 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites and like 80+ppm nitrates. So my LFS "That Fish Place" suggested to do plants help bring down the nitrates. Well the cycle completed and everything leveled out. However nitrates are still around 40ppm. Is this ok? Won't the plants live off the nitrates?

And forgive me. But can someone tell me about micros and macros please.

 

[jehenry89]

I'm happy that helped! Plants intake nitrates yes however, remember nitrates are still toxic to fish at high levels which is why you want to keep it around 10ppm, you can go as high as 20ppm if you wish. This will keep the fish and plants happy! 40 ppm is a little high for the fish. When you have live plants and you does macros and micos, you need to do 50% water changes once a week. When you do 50%, it will reset all the nutrients in the water and essentially start a new nutrient cycle. This way, the tank doesn't get overloaded. Because you don't have Co2, your plants will take in less nitrates than those tanks with co2 since growth will be slower, so yes it will help but it will not solve the problem. I don't know how often you are doing water changes, feeding or if your tank is overstocked but both of those can lead to high nitrate levels.

There are plants that are called "nitrate busters" these are plants that intake more nitrates than your normal plants. Some of the more popular ones on the list are as follows:
Ludwigia repens, Hygro. corymbosa, (I have these in my tank) and
Hygro. difformis.

As far as micros and macros. These are nutrient fertilizers that you can buy online or sometimes at your LFS. I prefer the "Aquavitro" line from Saechem. Your plants need both micros and macros to survive. The main macro nutrients include Potassium, Nitrate and Phosphorus. Each of these three come in their own individual bottles. Micro nutrients are iron, chlorine, copper, manganese, zinc, molybdenum, and boron. These all come together in one bottle. Dosing is different for each tank. Because you dont have co2, you will dose probably about once a week but you would have to test the water and alter it based on your eco-system.
Remember, once you start dosing these macro nutrients, you also have to start testing for them to make sure that they are balanced. Phosphorus you want between 1ppm and 2ppm. Nitrates you want between 10ppm and 20ppm. Potassium you want between 10ppm and 20ppm. Some people test for Iron, I personally don't but that you would want between 0.1ppm and 1.0 ppm. I would suggest testing for these once a day for a week and keep track of your numbers. After that week, you will have a good idea as to how often you should be dosing.

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[jehenry89]

The root feeding plants will need root tabs also. These generally last about 2-3 months and need to be replaced. They are pretty inexpensive. They dissolve over time so after 3 months, just put another one 1/2 way into the substrate. I do one tab per root feeder. I have 7 sword in my tank and each of them have their own tab. Put them about 4 inches away from the stems.

 

[PAwrangler08]

I'm happy that helped! Plants intake nitrates yes however, remember nitrates are still toxic to fish at high levels which is why you want to keep it around 10ppm, you can go as high as 20ppm if you wish. This will keep the fish and plants happy! 40 ppm is a little high for the fish. When you have live plants and you does macros and micos, you need to do 50% water changes once a week. When you do 50%, it will reset all the nutrients in the water and essentially start a new nutrient cycle. This way, the tank doesn't get overloaded. Because you don't have Co2, your plants will take in less nitrates than those tanks with co2 since growth will be slower, so yes it will help but it will not solve the problem. I don't know how often you are doing water changes, feeding or if your tank is overstocked but both of those can lead to high nitrate levels. There are plants that are called "nitrate busters" these are plants that intake more nitrates than your normal plants. Some of the more popular ones on the list are as follows: Ludwigia repens, Hygro. corymbosa, (I have these in my tank) and Hygro. difformis. As far as micros and macros. These are nutrient fertilizers that you can buy online or sometimes at your LFS. I prefer the "Aquavitro" line from Saechem. Your plants need both micros and macros to survive. The main macro nutrients include Potassium, Nitrate and Phosphorus. Each of these three come in their own individual bottles. Micro nutrients are iron, chlorine, copper, manganese, zinc, molybdenum, and boron. These all come together in one bottle. Dosing is different for each tank. Because you dont have co2, you will dose probably about once a week but you would have to test the water and alter it based on your eco-system. Remember, once you start dosing these macro nutrients, you also have to start testing for them to make sure that they are balanced. Phosphorus you want between 1ppm and 2ppm. Nitrates you want between 10ppm and 20ppm. Potassium you want between 10ppm and 20ppm. Some people test for Iron, I personally don't but that you would want between 0.1ppm and 1.0 ppm. I would suggest testing for these once a day for a week and keep track of your numbers. After that week, you will have a good idea as to how often you should be dosing.

To answer your questions about my tank. I do water changes about 2 times a month. I feed about 2 times a day. But my bottom feeders get fed once. I feed flakes, shrimp pellets, algae wafers, freeze dried blood worms, and occasionally frozen blood worms. My stocking is as follows: 2 parrot fish, 2 kissing gouramis, 2 blue gouramis, 2 gold gouramis, 5 tiger barbs, 5 serpae tetras, 5 golden barbs, 3 neon tetras, 3 cardinals tetras, a Banded leporinus, a Striped rapheal cat, 2 bumble bee cat, one Polka dot cat, one Chinese algae eater, Rainbow shark, and about 4 Mollies. If any of the following helps here it is. I have 2 HOB's. One aqueon 75 and a marineland emperor 400. I also have a sunsun HW-304B canister filter. I also use a sponge filter. So I'm moving a good amount of water. My pH is at 7.4. Ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, and as stated before my nitrates are about 40ppm. I'm not sure why my nitrates are staying up that high, even after water changes. I'm almost afraid to do a large water change of 50%. I don't want to throw my tank ion another mini cycle.


That sounds like a lot of work. If my nitrates are already high. Why would I want to dose more? Also I use well water for my water changes and add stress coat to them. Is the chlorine a very small amount? I feel like that would not be beneficial to an aquarium.

 

[jehenry89]

To answer your questions about my tank. I do water changes about 2 times a month. I feed about 2 times a day. But my bottom feeders get fed once. I feed flakes, shrimp pellets, algae wafers, freeze dried blood worms, and occasionally frozen blood worms. My stocking is as follows: 2 parrot fish, 2 kissing gouramis, 2 blue gouramis, 2 gold gouramis, 5 tiger barbs, 5 serpae tetras, 5 golden barbs, 3 neon tetras, 3 cardinals tetras, a Banded leporinus, a Striped rapheal cat, 2 bumble bee cat, one Polka dot cat, one Chinese algae eater, Rainbow shark, and about 4 Mollies. If any of the following helps here it is. I have 2 HOB's. One aqueon 75 and a marineland emperor 400. I also have a sunsun HW-304B canister filter. I also use a sponge filter. So I'm moving a good amount of water. My pH is at 7.4. Ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, and as stated before my nitrates are about 40ppm. I'm not sure why my nitrates are staying up that high, even after water changes. I'm almost afraid to do a large water change of 50%. I don't want to throw my tank ion another mini cycle.


That sounds like a lot of work. If my nitrates are already high. Why would I want to dose more? Also I use well water for my water changes and add stress coat to them. Is the chlorine a very small amount? I feel like that would not be beneficial to an aquarium.

In a mature tank, as long as the beneficial bacteria never hits chlorine, you can do up to 75% if you really have to. I am not saying dose nitrates when they are high. I mean in the future, as the plants start to consume them. Let me give you an example. My 55 gallon is heavily planted. I have to dose micro and macro 2 times a week and nitrates, I actually have to does 3 times a week to keep them around 10ppm. It is a lot of work until you learn how much and how often you have to dose nutrients. Once you pass that hump, it is not nearly as bad. Water changes will always suck lol, to this day I hate doing them but they have to be done. I was always told 50% once a week because it resets the fert cycle. Maybe some people do it different, I don't know.

I don't know about well water personally.

Your stocking is also all over the place. Some of the fish you have in there, shouldn't be in there. Some are aggressive and shouldn't be in the tank with peaceful fish. For example the Tiger Barb is an aggressive fish and they shouldn't be in the tank with Molly fish.

 

[PAwrangler08]

In a mature tank, as long as the beneficial bacteria never hits chlorine, you can do up to 75% if you really have to. I am not saying dose nitrates when they are high. I mean in the future, as the plants start to consume them. Let me give you an example. My 55 gallon is heavily planted. I have to dose micro and macro 2 times a week and nitrates, I actually have to does 3 times a week to keep them around 10ppm. It is a lot of work until you learn how much and how often you have to dose nutrients. Once you pass that hump, it is not nearly as bad. Water changes will always suck lol, to this day I hate doing them but they have to be done. I was always told 50% once a week because it resets the fert cycle. Maybe some people do it different, I don't know. I don't know about well water personally. Your stocking is also all over the place. Some of the fish you have in there, shouldn't be in there. Some are aggressive and shouldn't be in the tank with peaceful fish. For example the Tiger Barb is an aggressive fish and they shouldn't be in the tank with Molly fish.

Yea I've heard that before about my stocking. A majority of them were given to me or were going to be flushed. However everyone seems to be getting along with each other. Barbs are school, so are the tetras, and the pairs of gouramis. Mollies are paired up. Everyone seems healthy. But back to the plants for now, I will try to do that. Hopefully, like you said it won't be bad after a week or so of dosing. With frequent WC's I'm afraid of throwing my tank into a mini cycle though.

Actually I'm afraid of throwing my tank into a mini cycle every time I clean my filters and do water changes. But I try to not do them both in the same week.

 

[jehenry89]

You won't throw it into a cycle as long as you don't let the media hit tap water. With you having a hob filter, take the media out and put it into a container of tank water to keep the good bacteria alive. If you have a biowheel, never clean that.

As far as water changes, empty 50% of the water out of the tank. Make sure that any water you put into the tank has been dosed with Prime. To clean the innerwalls of the tank, use a microfiber cloth and just wipe them down before you do your water change. With live plants, dont dig the syphen into he gravel to far, just graze the top. Basically anything you want to clean in the filter, use tank water and you will be good. After you do water changes, you should reside nutrients for the plants since that will restart your cycle.

I'm sure there are videos on YouTube and such that will go step by step how to properly clean your tank so you don't throw it into a cycle.

 

[PAwrangler08]

You won't throw it into a cycle as long as you don't let the media hit tap water. With you having a hob filter, take the media out and put it into a container of tank water to keep the good bacteria alive. If you have a biowheel, never clean that. As far as water changes, empty 50% of the water out of the tank. Make sure that any water you put into the tank has been dosed with Prime. To clean the innerwalls of the tank, use a microfiber cloth and just wipe them down before you do your water change. With live plants, dont dig the syphen into he gravel to far, just graze the top. Basically anything you want to clean in the filter, use tank water and you will be good. After you do water changes, you should reside nutrients for the plants since that will restart your cycle. I'm sure there are videos on YouTube and such that will go step by step how to properly clean your tank so you don't throw it into a cycle.

So you shouldn't clean filters at all really? Just kind of brush the dirt off? Don't replace the filters unless they are destroyed? I haven't replaced any of my filters as of yet. And this up has been up and running since like June or July. I do have to admit my filters have hit tap water before.

 

[flitabout]

I wanted to add that the newer lights don't follow with the 1watt/per gallon and bigger tanks like yours need less light to achieve higher light especially when working with t5ho. I won't go in to the hows it made brain hurt. I spent weeks researching lux, par, lumens, and kelvin ratings. But as the light level gets higher you will need to add either co2 or a liquid carbon substitute. Ferts need upped or readjusted. Basically you are looking for bulbs that are k5000-K10,000 temp range with 6000-6700 being the most optimal. The higher the number the more blues you get which your plants can use but not as effectively, but algae sure can.

There are different types of fert dosing EI which is estimative index, or PPS which is the perpetual preservation system. These are considered dry ferts, they last longer and are much cheaper. Also from what I have seen in other peoples tanks very effective. I just got my first batch today and I can't wait to see what it will do! Rivercats is the one that introduced me to them, and as far as plants go on this board IMHO, she is the best. Here is the site she recommended to me. Aquarium Plant Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums
A 50% water change a week is a good rule of thumb. But you will need to test your tap. The best way to test the tap is to take a cup of water and either aerate it or stir it off and on for 24 hours to allow it to off gas. This will give you an accurate reading on the levels of your tap. You may have nitrate in your tap. Which will effect the way you dose fert and do your water changes.
I know it all sounds so complicated but it really isn't.

 

[jehenry89]

I wanted to add that the newer lights don't follow with the 1watt/per gallon and bigger tanks like yours need less light to achieve higher light especially when working with t5ho. I won't go in to the hows it made brain hurt. I spent weeks researching lux, par, lumens, and kelvin ratings. But as the light level gets higher you will need to add either co2 or a liquid carbon substitute. Ferts need upped or readjusted. Basically you are looking for bulbs that are k5000-K10,000 temp range with 6000-6700 being the most optimal. The higher the number the more blues you get which your plants can use but not as effectively, but algae sure can.

There are different types of fert dosing EI which is estimative index, or PPS which is the perpetual preservation system. These are considered dry ferts, they last longer and are much cheaper. Also from what I have seen in other peoples tanks very effective. I just got my first batch today and I can't wait to see what it will do! Rivercats is the one that introduced me to them, and as far as plants go on this board IMHO, she is the best. Here is the site she recommended to me. Aquarium Plant Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums
A 50% water change a week is a good rule of thumb. But you will need to test your tap. The best way to test the tap is to take a cup of water and either aerate it or stir it off and on for 24 hours to allow it to off gas. This will give you an accurate reading on the levels of your tap. You may have nitrate in your tap. Which will effect the way you dose fert and do your water changes.
I know it all sounds so complicated but it really isn't.

Ya I remember reading something about how the h5's are different from prior lighting because it is so much brighter. I didn't really understand how it works lol. Rivercats is the best...he a lot of useful information.
My tank is going though a mini cycle at the moment because my dog thought it would be funny to take my biofoam pads from my filter and play hide and seek with them. I ended up having to get new ones...I still havnt found my old ones. He didn't get a hold of my bio noodles though thank god lol

 

[flitabout]

That's funny I am going through a mini myself! I was a dummy and I added to many fish last week. I am actually sitting here looking at developing test tubes right now! Oh and just so you know River is a woman.

 

[jehenry89]

Lol well...sorry rivercats!! I have learned a lot from her. I just recently started my first planted tank but I did a lot of research before hand but no matter, there's always more to learn lol. I have been keeping aquriums for a really lone time though. I hate mini cycles. It's easy to blame the dog but it's my fault for leaving it out as I vacuumed the tank ><. Won't make that mistake again lol.

 

[PAwrangler08]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Jehenry, you said you used a seachem product. I couldn't find it I usually deal with That Fish place since it is pretty close to my house. I see a lot of seachem flourish and excel. Is this something I should use or keep away from?

 

[flitabout]

If you want to go the seachem route look on amazon.com. I found all of them on there.

 

[PAwrangler08]

If you want to go the seachem route look on amazon.com. I found all of them on there.

I'm still a bit confused about what exactly to get. Individual bottles of potassium and phosphorous? And then a micros bottle that has iron chlorine copper manganese zinc molybdenum and boron in it?

 

[flitabout]

Yep that is what you should get.

 

[PAwrangler08]

Yep that is what you should get.

Any specific brands? Is there a bottle called micros or is that a general product?

 

[PAwrangler08]

Any specific brands? Is there a bottle called micros or is that a general product?

For example should I get seachems flourish plant supplement. It has iron magnesium potassium inositol choline b12 biotin. And then get seachem flourish potassium bottle?

 

[jehenry89]

I like the liquid fertilizers because it's just more convenient for me. Online is your best bet for that route. Most stores only carry the flourish comprehensive which is basically micro nutrients. Excel is liquid carbon which can be used daily but it's expensive. I only use it at th site of algae. The individual bottles include potassium, phosphorus and nitrate. All the trace nutrients come in one bottle. The only one I am familiar with is flourish comprehensive blend.

When you say that fish place, I'm assuming you mean the one in Lancaster,pa? If so, they run a huge online store called "thatpetplace" I do all my ordering from them because it's only an hour and half from me and I get my order next day with ground shipping lol. I live in bucks county.

 

[PAwrangler08]

I like the liquid fertilizers because it's just more convenient for me. Online is your best bet for that route. Most stores only carry the flourish comprehensive which is basically micro nutrients. Excel is liquid carbon which can be used daily but it's expensive. I only use it at th site of algae. The individual bottles include potassium, phosphorus and nitrate. All the trace nutrients come in one bottle. The only one I am familiar with is flourish comprehensive blend. When you say that fish place, I'm assuming you mean the one in Lancaster,pa? If so, they run a huge online store called "thatpetplace" I do all my ordering from them because it's only an hour and half from me and I get my order next day with ground shipping lol. I live in bucks county.

Yup. That's the place. I'm in Berks county so it only like 45-50 minutes from me.