Nitrogen Deficiency

[hjsvt]

I think my plants are experiencing nitrogen deficiency and whiting in the leaves I'm seeing is chlorosis. All of my plants seem to be effected. I am about 4 days overdue for a PWC but my nitrates are only 5 ppm and have been for about 5 days. I do have some Flourish Nitrogen ordered that should be there tomorrow. However, it may not arrive before I have to head out of town for the weekend. So do I wait another couple of days on the PWC or just do a smaller PWC (I was going to do 50%). A PWC will further reduce my nitrates and I may not be able to add some additional nitrogen until Sunday afternoon. Will my plants be okay? Will they recover from this? They had been doing great during my fishless cycle with all the available nitrates. Growth was great. Obviously my fish are not producing enough ammonia to generate the amount of nitrates for the plants I have.

I have a 29 gallon, with 5 Cherry Barbs, 5 Lemon Tetras, 4 Julii Cory, several dwarf lettuce plants, one large mother amazon sword with runners and multiple babies, 3 dwarf sagittaria, 4 banana plants, 3 java ferns, 2 moss balls, 2 anubias hastifolia, and some mirco sword. So far I have only dosed Flourish Excel daily and added phosphorus to balance the nitrates. I also added root tabs when I added the plants about 3 weeks ago. I did add a dose of API leaf zone last weekend but it may have made things worse. I thought the might help me see some growth in my java ferns. I also am starting to see a breakout of brown algae. I have a Finnex Stingray light that I run 9 hrs a day, 4 in the am, 4 hour break and 5 in the afternoon/evening. I'm feeling like things are just out of balance for my plants. So do I wait a little longer on the PWC or go for it anyway? Thanks for the help.

 

[Mebbid]

Im on my phone so i dont have access to the links id like to send you.

However, could you send pictures of the leaves of the plants that are effected?

Ill try to post the links later today

 

[hjsvt]

I have attached 4 pictures. The Anubias leaf is pretty new and had a great reddish color to it. Hopefully the others are self-explanatory. Let me know if you have other questions.

I went ahead with the 50% WC today anyway. The tank was really dirty and needed it. It was delayed while I tried to figure out my water issues. So I figured it will be what it will be with the plants. I'm hoping they will recover.

In my extensive gravel cleaning I found the empty shell from on the 1 pond snail I had come over on my new plants. Something killed it. Any ideas what it might be? What are inverts most sensitive too that doesn't effect the fish? Glad I haven't added any more or added any shrimp.

BTW, I think the leaves receiving the most light are the most effected. Thanks.

***UPDATE***
An hour after WC, Nitrate at 5ppm and Phosphate at 0ppm.

 

[Delapool]

Copied in some links in case useful

Yet Another Nutrient Calculator

Identifying Aquarium Plant Deficiencies | AquaticMagic Blog

Aquatic plant deficiency - Aquarium-fertilizer.com

Plant Deficiency Picture Diagram - Plant Deficiencies - Aquatic Plant Central

Plant Deficiency Symptoms - - Aquatic Plant Central

 

[hjsvt]

Copied in some links in case useful

Yet Another Nutrient Calculator

Identifying Aquarium Plant Deficiencies | AquaticMagic Blog

Aquatic plant deficiency - Aquarium-fertilizer.com

Plant Deficiency Picture Diagram - Plant Deficiencies - Aquatic Plant Central

Plant Deficiency Symptoms - - Aquatic Plant Central

Thank you very much Delapool! I seen and found some of these links or similar ones. However, I had not seen the calculator or the last one with the pictures of the actual plants with deficiencies. I found these two the most helpful. So thank you again for your help. Based on the photos, I think the deficiencies I'm seeing are more like iron deficiencies. But what's curious is a dose of API leaf zone last week did not seem to result in any improvements? So today, 4 days after 50% water change my nitrates have dropped to less then 5 ppm maybe even 0 but it's hard to believe there are none in there. So I have added Flourish Nitrogen to a 15 ppm nitrate target. I've also increased my phosphate to target of 1 ppm. Would you also recommend adding a dose of API leaf zone? It just seems like whenever I dose that fert., I see a major increase in the brown algae.

 

[Vlado21]

1. inverts are more sensitive to heavy metals (Cu, Fd, Pb, Zn, Ni,...) then fish, it might come to aquarium with liquid ferts or root tabs.

2. be veeeery carefull with adding phosphorus if your level of NO3 is too low! You can invite BGA in your tank in this way...

3. If your aquarium is properly cycled and you have less fish, but more plants, I'd recommend you to dose KNO3 daily (ok, if you don't have it, FN might be fine too) + liquid (chelate) Fe in case, plants leaves will stay light green still and feeble (and it should be dark green or even red).

 

[Delapool]

That's a handy tip on point 2 above I never knew.

I've copied in another link.

I'd dose potassium as well. I dry dose potassium sulphate separate now and am finding a lot of plant problems are going (lower leaf loss, leaf curl, leaf holes and colour loss).

Nitrates are always around 30 to 50ppm for me and phosphate had just dropped to 0.5 before I started dosing that as well. Also increased co2 injection and reduced light period. Substrate is gravel unfortunately.

But honestly still trying to get decent plants here.


https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/Цялостен-наръчник-за-проблеми-по-растенията.60321/

 

[hjsvt]

Thank you Vlado21 and Delapool. I do know about the phosphate and algae. I've been following the table on this website.

Free of algae with Redfield Ratio | Aquariumpagina's van Charles Buddendorf

I dosed up to 10-15 ppm of nitrate today and then 1 ppm of phosphate which should put me in the good ratio or slightly in the green algae zone. I won't mind a little green algae. I'd like to get some snails and have something to feed them. I don't really care for the brown algae and I'm not sure if anything eats that.

That last link you posted Delapool also pointed towards iron deficiency and not nitrogen. I did add some Flourish Comprehensive today but according to the calculators I could add some more and yes I'm going to add potassium tomorrow. Then I think I'll give it a rest for a week and see what happens.

Thank you both for the help! I really appreciate it!

 

[Delapool]

Thanks for the link above - will have to have a play with that.

Plants - soooo annoying!

 

[hjsvt]

Interesting developments today.

I added Flourish Comprehensive Monday and Tuesday for a total Fe dose of 0.5 ppm. I did get a reading yesterday morning with the Nutrafin Iron test kit of 0.25-0.5. This morning the iron test result was maybe 0.1 ppm. The color was so faint it's hard to tell. So the plants must have used up the iron I put in there? So I added more today to dose back up to the 0.5 ppm Fe with Flourish. I'm worried now about all the other things the Flourish adds and getting too much of those in there but the tank is due for a PWC tomorrow and I ordered some Flourish Iron and it will be here Friday. Also, yesterday nitrates solidly between 10-20 ppm and today definitely 5 ppm. Phosphate as also dropped from 1 ppm on Monday to 0.5 ppm today. Only other addition was 1/2-3/4 of a gallon of RO water to replace evaporation loss. Hoping as I add and test and watch my plants I might finally now what to add and when without so much testing.

 

[GinnyFinny]

I noticed that you're running a Finnex Stingray LED light. I have the same one in my 20 gallon long tank. This particular light is mostly used for low-light plants, which mean they grow slowly. I have had similar KNO3 issues, even though I use Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish liguid and tabs. What seems to have helped though is water flow at a pretty good clip, plus an aerator. Now that I've stopped cleaning the course sand, my Nitrates are up from 2ppm to 10 ppm - optimal is 10-40 ppm NO3. Boy, if I ever get there I'll be thrilled. I am now doing 25% WC's weekly.

I don't know if you have mid or high light plants, but if they require a lot of light, then I would think the Stingray would not be providing enough light.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. P.S. I have 18 Amano shrimp that love to graze the mulm in the sand. Another suggestion from my LFS was to not clean the substrate ever. Dunno. Just keep trying new things.

 

[Delapool]

Interesting developments today.

I added Flourish Comprehensive Monday and Tuesday for a total Fe dose of 0.5 ppm. I did get a reading yesterday morning with the Nutrafin Iron test kit of 0.25-0.5. This morning the iron test result was maybe 0.1 ppm. The color was so faint it's hard to tell. So the plants must have used up the iron I put in there? So I added more today to dose back up to the 0.5 ppm Fe with Flourish. I'm worried now about all the other things the Flourish adds and getting too much of those in there but the tank is due for a PWC tomorrow and I ordered some Flourish Iron and it will be here Friday. Also, yesterday nitrates solidly between 10-20 ppm and today definitely 5 ppm. Phosphate as also dropped from 1 ppm on Monday to 0.5 ppm today. Only other addition was 1/2-3/4 of a gallon of RO water to replace evaporation loss. Hoping as I add and test and watch my plants I might finally now what to add and when without so much testing.

Is the nutrafin iron test easy to use?

The seachem iron test I find never seems to give a reading. So either all my iron is getting locked out of the water column really fast (but that is strange since it is chelated) or I'm not doing high enough - will have to try testing again as dry dosing micros for last two weeks now.

 

[Vlado21]

You hit it! Sometimes it's better to watch how're plants going then to rely on tests... You must have a fine garden in aquarium and solve similar problems as I do too.

 

[hjsvt]

I noticed that you're running a Finnex Stingray LED light. I have the same one in my 20 gallon long tank. This particular light is mostly used for low-light plants, which mean they grow slowly. I have had similar KNO3 issues, even though I use Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish liguid and tabs. What seems to have helped though is water flow at a pretty good clip, plus an aerator. Now that I've stopped cleaning the course sand, my Nitrates are up from 2ppm to 10 ppm - optimal is 10-40 ppm NO3. Boy, if I ever get there I'll be thrilled. I am now doing 25% WC's weekly.

I don't know if you have mid or high light plants, but if they require a lot of light, then I would think the Stingray would not be providing enough light.

Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in. P.S. I have 18 Amano shrimp that love to graze the mulm in the sand. Another suggestion from my LFS was to not clean the substrate ever. Dunno. Just keep trying new things.

Thanks GinnyFinny. I did know my light is low light and that's what I wanted. I have all low light plants and I'm not looking for fast growth just healthy slow to moderate would be fine. There was definitely a change from when I started the plants to about a week ago. I wonder also if the root tabs were all used up. The plants have been planted and roots tabs added one month ago yesterday. My Sagittaria was growing like crazy, putting up new shoots and new leaves that reached the surface of the water. My banana plants all had new leaves emerging. My Anubias [FONT=&quot]hastifolia had brand new leaves with a beautiful rich red color and my sword was growing new leaves and a new runner for babies. Then it all stopped right about the time I added fish and the nitrates starting dropping. At the same time I also had a big brown algae bloom. It does appear that my problem was iron deficiency and not nitrogen deficiency but it could have been both. I'm also wondering now if maybe the brown algae uses up both nitrogen and iron too. That would also make sense for the fast depletion. [/FONT]
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[hjsvt]

Is the nutrafin iron test easy to use?

The seachem iron test I find never seems to give a reading. So either all my iron is getting locked out of the water column really fast (but that is strange since it is chelated) or I'm not doing high enough - will have to try testing again as dry dosing micros for last two weeks now.

I think the nutrafin test is easy to use. Although it does take a long time to develop the color, 30 mins. It's as easy to use as most of the other liquid tests. I don't like the included test tube and cap though. It doesn't fit tight and leaks. Yesterday when I tested I used an extra API test tube and compared the color and they were the same so I'm am going to use the API test tubes for the iron test from now on. I am measuring my 5 ml with a syringe for accuracy. So the back of the Flourish Iron bottle does say to test with 30 minutes because of fast up take. I add F. Comp. yesterday about 10 am and then tested last night at about 6:30 pm and I was reading 0.25-0.5 ppm. This morning, probably only 0.1 or less, the color is there but very faint so it is disappearing pretty quickly. I'm going to keep dosing and testing until (I hope?) I see it level out. Maybe if the plants are deficient, they are using more than they normally would? Everything is looking a little better today. I am starting to see some new growth again. Of course I still have brown algae but I added 4 netrite snails today. So I'm hoping things will continue to improve. Thanks so much for the help!

 

[hjsvt]

You hit it! Sometimes it's better to watch how're plants going then to rely on tests... You must have a fine garden in aquarium and solve similar problems as I do too.

Thanks Vlado21! I hope to not rely on the tests as much eventually. But right now I'm thinking the tests are helping me figure things out so I'll know better how to keep things in balance.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[Delapool]

I think the nutrafin test is easy to use. Although it does take a long time to develop the color, 30 mins. It's as easy to use as most of the other liquid tests. I don't like the included test tube and cap though. It doesn't fit tight and leaks. Yesterday when I tested I used an extra API test tube and compared the color and they were the same so I'm am going to use the API test tubes for the iron test from now on. I am measuring my 5 ml with a syringe for accuracy. So the back of the Flourish Iron bottle does say to test with 30 minutes because of fast up take. I add F. Comp. yesterday about 10 am and then tested last night at about 6:30 pm and I was reading 0.25-0.5 ppm. This morning, probably only 0.1 or less, the color is there but very faint so it is disappearing pretty quickly. I'm going to keep dosing and testing until (I hope?) I see it level out. Maybe if the plants are deficient, they are using more than they normally would? Everything is looking a little better today. I am starting to see some new growth again. Of course I still have brown algae but I added 4 netrite snails today. So I'm hoping things will continue to improve. Thanks so much for the help!

Thanks, I'll have a look. The seachem test also takes 30 minutes. It's not particularly hard but it's a telling sign when a test comes with it's own test solution so you can check it is working It is mainly down the lower end where it is all little shades of yellow and pretty hard to tell I find. Hopefully test tonight for end of week.

 

[Delapool]

You hit it! Sometimes it's better to watch how're plants going then to rely on tests... You must have a fine garden in aquarium and solve similar problems as I do too.

I tend to do both. It's a good point. The potassium test I have has never read under 50ppm but since increasing the potassium dose (even more) the plants are doing a lot better. Even though the test was saying all is ok, the plants had lower leaf holes and curls.

Sometimes I wonder if it is element accessibility as well. Actually I wonder that a lot with gravel substrate.

Now if I could just get the BBA back under control

 

[Delapool]

I just wanted to add here (just in case), that I'm a keen water tester myself. I find it useful to get some hard numbers on tank water chemistry which has helped in the past. So definitely not against testing.

 

[GinnyFinny]

I actually