oh no, I've messed up

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TammyLiz

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
26
Location
Virginia, USA
OK I think I've really made a mess of things. I've been lurking in forums and joined one other one before I found this one. I just read the stickies here in the planted section and I thought I would tell everyone what a mess I've made to see if you can help me fix it. :oops:

I kept a lot of fish years ago and am now getting back into the hobby but didn't want to stick my plastic plants in the tank. So...

Saturday I set up a new (used) 55 gallon tank and transfered a seeded filter from a smaller tank along with three gouramis about 2 1/2 inches long, and added two more gouramis when I made the move. I transfered my plants from the smaller tank and also added some new ones. I am making a diy hood but am still in the process so I have just 2 18 watt bulbs on there. I don't have any substrate because I changed my mind about what I wanted to use at the last minute and its being shipped now. They said it should be in today. I'm going to use soilmaster. So the plants are just kind of sitting in there. Unfortunately there was a little bit of an ammonia spike and that is still sorting itself out. As for what I did wrong, well, I am using a penguin biowheel filter and I liked it so much I ordered two more to go on my other tanks (only have one filter and three tanks). They should be in the mail now. But I read that they remove too much CO2 from the water for a planted tank! Also, one of my gouramis has developed ich, probably from the ammonia spike and maybe it was introduced with some java moss I put in there recently. Who knows. So now i have no substrate, ich, and a filter that is not ideal. Any suggestions would be helpful. :?

Tammy

edit: I might add that I wasn't planning on adding CO2 and was going to have 2 48" T8 lights in there.
 
You are fine iwth the biowheels as long as you don't inject co2. I believe the argument is that co2 is present in air in far greater amounts than it is in water (sorry I can't find the numbers:(). Therefore, the more exchange of gas at the water/air interface you can get, the higher the co2 concentration will be in the water!

So, if you aren't injecting and want decent co2 levels, make sure you DO have surface agitation, the more the better!

If the penguin filter inserts contain activated carbon (aka charcoal) you should really remove it, as it is completely unnecessary.
 
2 18 watts bulbs is not enought light. How much are you planning on having after the DIY hood is complete?
 
workfortheman said:
You are fine iwth the biowheels as long as you don't inject co2. I believe the argument is that co2 is present in air in far greater amounts than it is in water (sorry I can't find the numbers:(). Therefore, the more exchange of gas at the water/air interface you can get, the higher the co2 concentration will be in the water!

So, if you aren't injecting and want decent co2 levels, make sure you DO have surface agitation, the more the better!

I wouldn't have thought that but you may be right. I was thinking the surface agitation would just be adding oxygen to the water.
 
gfink said:
2 18 watts bulbs is not enought light. How much are you planning on having after the DIY hood is complete?

I'll be putting 2 48" T8 bulbs which will be a total of 64 watts I think. I will have room in the hood to easily add more in the future but I was thinking I'd be conservative with it at first because I want to try to avoid algae problems. Without Co2 I am under the impression overdoing it on the lights is asking for an algae bloom.

For right now the plants are not growing quickly but at least surviving. The val has lost a couple of leaves but the wisteria, amazon sword, and moneywort are doing fine. Other than that I have java fern, java moss, and anubias which are fine without a lot of light. The bulbs are new full spectrum ones. We'll see what happens. I welcome any comments on what I should expect with this setup.

I'm on my way to the LFS to pick up some salt for the ich problem. Does this hurt the plants?
 
If you begin to see the plants deteriorate before getting the new lights up. floating anything but the moss (messy) close to the current lights should help.

I think your set-up will be nice. There is a great thread about agitation in non-injected tanks here. A vote for adding crypts once you get the substrate. If you would like to diversify your plant options, check out Jchillin's low light tank for some stuff that grows well but are usually excluded from low light lists (L. repens, for example).

You are doing great.
 
Do not add salt for your ich problem! You will hurt your plants. Slowly adjusting your water temp to 86-87 degrees and keeping it there for at least two weeks will get rid of the ich. Do not fall into the trap of buying something that will help to get rid of it (IE Quickcure), as this will not help as well, and will also hurt the plants.

I have a penguin on my 20 gallon, and my plants are doing quite well. I have lots of wisteria that are thriving, and some other plants that are doing well too.

I too was concerned about the loss of CO2 with the penguin and also my 4" bubbler. The guys on here said that it does not hurt as long as you aren't injecting CO2, it actually helps keep the CO2 level in the tank the same as the air in your room. You may want to think about adding some seachem excel to at least give your plants some carbon source.
 
bman said:
Do not add salt for your ich problem! You will hurt your plants.

Unfortunately its a little late to avoid adding salt. I just finished doing it! I can't do another water change right now, it takes me forever to get the water temp up and I need to go to bed. (It comes out of my faucet at 45 degrees F!) Hopefully the plants will be OK. I'll change some more of the water tomorrow, which will remove some of the salt. I should have waited until I was sure it was OK. Now I know :roll:
 
workfortheman said:
You are fine iwth the biowheels as long as you don't inject co2. I believe the argument is that co2 is present in air in far greater amounts than it is in water (sorry I can't find the numbers:(). Therefore, the more exchange of gas at the water/air interface you can get, the higher the co2 concentration will be in the water!

Surface agitation helps maintain O2 levels. O2 saturation in aquarium temp water is about 4ppm.

Biowheels, however, will not whip CO2 into the water. CO2 by its nature wants to exit the water column until it hits super low levels. Just like opening a warm can of soda, the CO2 wants to escape.
'Normal' CO2 levels in water are low...3-4ppm. However CO2 saturation is well over 100ppm.

The Bio-wheels would help maintain 3-4ppm in the aquarium, but that's it. You'd never get the 25-35ppm of CO2 needed for a high light tank without CO2 injection, and likely removing the bio-wheels completely.
 
you may want to try some Flourish Excel until you decide how and if you want to inject co2 into the tank.. it is a carbon that plants can use and a lot of us have had decent luck wtih it.

it is certainly a good stop gap for now.
 
I understand that Excel gives the benefits of CO2. Is it actual CO2 that might end up escaping into my room through surface agitation? I ask because I'm wondering if I would just be wasting it by letting it escape through my HOB filter.
 
I should add that I moved the plants to another tank because they were suffering from the salt. I hope the damage is done and they don't decline any more. I would be so disappointed.
 
How much salt did you put in? A couple of pwc should help lower the salinity of the water column. You mentioned that the water you use comes out of the tap at 45 degrees. I am assuming that you do not use the hot water knob. It is perfectly fine to mix up water that is the same temp as your tank. I started a thread about that a while ago, and everyone said it is OK, if not better than freezing your fish out during every pwc. I actually use a digital meat thermometer to get the right temp and then fill my buckets accordingly.
 
How much salt did you put in? A couple of pwc should help lower the salinity of the water column. You mentioned that the water you use comes out of the tap at 45 degrees. I am assuming that you do not use the hot water knob. It is perfectly fine to mix up water that is the same temp as your tank. I started a thread about that a while ago, and everyone said it is OK, if not better than freezing your fish out during every pwc. I actually use a digital meat thermometer to get the right temp and then fill my buckets accordingly.

I used to get warm water out of the tap when I was in high school but this time around I've been using the cold tap and boiling enough water to get it to temp. I was afraid of scaries that might be growing in the hot water tank. Ours isn't that old, though. Maybe I'll change tactics for the sake of convenience.

I put 8 Tablespoons of aquarium salt into 55 gallons. Not all that much. I would change it out but I ended up moving the plants because I can't get the temp up in the tank to treat for the ich. The air temperature in here is 67F and i can't get the tank over 78F! So I'll leave the salt in until I get another heater I guess. That way maybe the ich won't be too out of control. I was hoping to wait before spending the money on a heater. They're so expensive! I am afraid to trust my fish to a cheap one. (Not like the one I already have isn't cheap. I got it used with the tank)
 
If you can't get the temp up to 89 or so, you might want to leave it at it's regular setting; Ich's lifecycle speeds up as temp rises until you hit about 89, when it doesn't do so well... at least this is what i've read, so YMMV
 
I agree with BlazerFRS, keep the temp where it is until you can get the heater that will keep the temp above 86 constantly.

I was afraid of scaries that might be growing in the hot water tank
Somehow this statement does not sit right with me - kind of creepy to think there might be scaries in the hot water heater :wink:

Removing the plants was probably best, set aside from multiple pwc.

Good luck, and get the heater ASAP of the ich will get worse.
 
Somehow this statement does not sit right with me - kind of creepy to think there might be scaries in the hot water heater Wink

I was thinking about mineral buildup and stuff of that sort. Your comment did make me laugh :)

If you can't get the temp up to 89 or so, you might want to leave it at it's regular setting; Ich's lifecycle speeds up as temp rises until you hit about 89, when it doesn't do so well... at least this is what i've read, so YMMV

Good idea. The thought had entered my mind. If I can't get another heater tomorrow I will turn it back down.
 
Here's my take. If ich is present, it's possible that the plants need to be treated as well. The parasite has a free swimming stage and can attach itself to anything in the aquarium.
 
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