Plant issue (with extensive tank info for once!)

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

MINIMAL

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
202
Location
Charleston, WV
~Plant(s) affected? Water Sprite, Amazon Sword, Dwarf 4 Leaf, Banana Plant, Pennywort (riccia, java moss, subwassertang, dwarf hairgrass, creeping jenny, and anubias are unaffected so far)
~Tank size/volume? 55 gallon
~Lighting/wpg? 4 CFL, can't remember wattage, 2 sessions of 6 hours on per day with 1.5 hour break
~Do you inject CO2? If so do you know the level? Yes, Yeast/Sugar, unsure of amount
~What do pH, KH, PO4, NH3 and/or NO3 test kits say? All test are in normal range
~Dosing? What/how much/how often? Have had 1 cup of Miracle Grow potting mix under soil since cycle secured in mesh, however this is nowhere near the plants with the issues.
~Heavily, moderately, or lightly planted? Moderately
~Fish stock? About 12 various small fish and inverts
~Tank Location (near windows - in direct sunlight)? Not near any windows or sun.
~How long has tank been set up? 3 months

Started two days ago and came rapidly. Leaves have turned light brown/white, some even became transparent, and some have lost sections of the leaves. All tests are where they should be as far as I can tell. I installed a new API Filstar XPL yesterday with a layering that goes like this from inlet to outlet – 20m filter, 30m filter, bio balls, carbon filter, bio filter, bio balls, 20m filter, 30m filter ( I know, I know… the LFS was out of everything I will change this up soon) so I am hoping this will help to some extent.

Up until two days ago, the plants where taking off like crazy, with the sprite and sword doing best, averaging .5” to 1” of growth per week. There are no signs of algae, a 20% water change was completed a week ago and about 10% added yesterday to compensate for the low water level after filling the new filter. The fish, RCS, and snail are not showing any issues, nor have I lost a single creature since this tank was started. Most of the plants are showing issues above the halfway mark of the tank, with only one stem of sprite, and one leaf cluster of pennywort having an issue below the halfway mark.

The tank stays 77-78 degrees with lights on and 76 with them off. Hardscape and substrate items have been in since day 1, but I will list them as well. Two pieces of Malaysian Driftwood, 1 piece of petrified wood, multiple river rocks, river pebbles, sand (all items were placed in an established tank for 3 weeks prior to being placed into the startup of this tank, there were boiled before the established, and after the established as well)

Only thing that is newly added is the riccia, and it is literally 3 feet from the closest plant with an issue though, so there are only two things I can think of that could be causing this, so please chime in with anything else you can think of. #1 Originally I had an over the back filter that was on the opposite side of the plants with the issue, so I am wondering if the lack of circulation on the opposite side could have done this, it was not the temperature, because I have one strip at the top and one at the bottom of the side that is affected, and they were never above normal. #2 Toxin(s) of some form, but the only thing I can think of is the miracle grow that isn’t just a normal product, but I have had it in tanks for years without issues, and even have it in my clippings tank for the extra sprite and java that I accumulated because of the growth rate and those plants do not show any signs of issues.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I did my best to explain this as clearly as possible, because I didn’t want to be “that guy” who says my plants are dying! What should I do? Yet provides no further info haha. Thanks in advance to anybody that helps!

**A sample picture of the sword is below, yes its blurry it was 5am and I hadn't had coffee yet.
 

Attachments

  • cap0522.jpg
    cap0522.jpg
    41.6 KB · Views: 65
It sounds like your plants are melting.

I have had plants melt when they are not given enough light, or when a shipment froze.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
I know lack of lighting is not the issue, as the plants have been completely fine. Since 95% this is happening mostly on the top half of the tank, could it be too much light causing them to get "sunburn"?
 
It might be if that's a thing, never heard of it before though.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
I got the light fixture from a friend, he said that the bulbs in it were 2-65w 10,000k CFL Daylight and 2-65w 460nm.
 
I will retest the water when I get home and put up those numbers and get some better photos as well. From what I have read, the lighting seems to be ok for the tank size at 2.36wpg and the Actinic light being only asthetic for FW.....So it has to be a water chemistry or nutrient issue, right?
 
Co2 and/or nutrients. Do you add any ferts to the water?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
 
I have CO2, but i may add a second diy system until my wallet agrees with a compressed setup, because the diy pushes out about a 1-1/2" section of CO2 from the line about every 10-20 seconds, which has been working great so far.

No ferts other than the buried soil have been added. Should i give this a try before anything else? And if so, can somebody please advise on what fert i should try first based on the info i gave in thebegining about the plants? All of the local lfs seem to be saltwater guru's and have as much knowledge as my cat when it comes to FW so i would rather (not for only my tanks sake, but my wallets as well) ask people who know wtf they are talking about lol.
 
I have little experience but isn't that spectrum range high?
Ideally 6500 to 7500 for planted tanks. I'm thinking 10,000 and no ferts could be an issue. That's more photo time than I give with my single led.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
 
PH 7.2 Ammonia 0.0 Nitrate 0.20

Today the sprite looks white in some places then some of the branches are curled. The clover and penny wort have snapped out of it I guess because they look better. The swords appear tranparent, but no further deterioration. Going to go to the lfs in about an hour so if you think of anything I should get please post it. Thanks!
 
Think I found the culprits. Turned the lights off and the gourami started destroying the sprite and the pleco is nearly suckling the leaves off the sword. They look like they are trying to clean them but they are not gentle at all. I think they are the problem
 
460 nm is an Actinic light bulb. They are used for reef tanks. They do very little to plants unless you are adding other spectrums from something else. We don't typically include actinic light as part of the wattage in a planted tank.


Your plants are showing signs of a nutrient deficiency. What Macro and Micro ferts are you adding?


Looks like potassium or nitrogen to me
 
terrestrial plants show nutrient deficiencies just like our submerged plants do. Here is a quick guide to help you figure out what is missing.


Whole Home News
 
If plecos are eating live plants then they are likely starving. Do you feed him?

Im putting money on the issue being lack of ferts. If it was just the fish eating them you would see tears and holes rather than them turning clear.
 
~What do pH, KH, PO4, NH3 and/or NO3 test kits say? All test are in normal range

Define normal.

I agree with a likely fert issue, although it doesn't look like they're yellowing very much from that picture. Trick of the light or real?

Double check CO2 and temp. Agree with feeding the pleco more, because that's a hard one to prove one way or another.
 
Think I found the culprits. Turned the lights off and the gourami started destroying the sprite and the pleco is nearly suckling the leaves off the sword. They look like they are trying to clean them but they are not gentle at all. I think they are the problem

I don't think this is necessarily the cause rather a symptom. Below is a picture of damage caused by a hungry L333 Pleco.

100168-albums14356-picture68907.jpg


Fish/snails won't usually eat health plant tissue as it contains chemicals to deter grazing. It's not until the leaf has started breaking down and the chemicals leached out that they will begin to munch them.

The fact that you mentioned this happened suddenly suggests something changed. Is it possible you did a water change and forgot to neutralize the chloramines? Did you overdose Excel or similar? Did the CO2 levels cause a pH spike? Are there any bubbles coming up from the substrate?

Nutrient problems are usually slower to take affect. So while I'm not say that your plants don't need them I wouldn't make any rapid changes.

By the way I now have a albino bristle-nose and it doesn't seem to bother the plants. If your pleco is hungry wait until after the lights turn off and add a couple of algae wafers.
 
The pleco gets plenty of food. He is just a neat freak I guess. Everything is doing fine now. I started trace and dropped the temp 2 degrees and removed most of the sprite. Removing the sprite seems to have freed up the nutrients.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
Back
Top Bottom