plant nursery/grow tank

[Coyne]

Im in the process of setting up a 20L aquarium that will be used primarily as plant nursery for growing out plants that I plan on using in other tanks. I have little experience with live plants and even less success, so Im also hoping to use this as a learning experience. Nothing is actually set up yet and I was hoping to see if Im over looking anything and maybe ask a stupid question.

I'll be using the Fluval Full Spectrum LED lighting that claims to be designed for plant use. Fluval Daylight Aqualife & Plant LED Aquarium Lamp - LED Aquarium Fish Tank Lights - petco.com

I have the Fluval Pressurized CO2 88 kit. Freshwater Planted Aquarium & Plant Care: Fluval Pressurized CO2 Kit

Ive purchased 2 bags of CaribSea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium substrate that I'll be adding Flourish Root Tabs to. I plan on the substrate being 3" deep. I also have the Fourish Comprehensive Suppliment along with their Potassium and Iron suppliments.

For filtration I'll be using an Eheim ECCO 2232 canister. Aquarium Water Quality & Filtration: Eheim ECCO Canister Filters

Does this sound sufficient? Any tips or suggestions?
I dont plan on adding any fish initially, so do I still need to cycle the tank prior to adding plants?

 

[Zimmanski]

Im in the process of setting up a 20L aquarium that will be used primarily as plant nursery for growing out plants that I plan on using in other tanks. I have little experience with live plants and even less success, so Im also hoping to use this as a learning experience. Nothing is actually set up yet and I was hoping to see if Im over looking anything and maybe ask a stupid question. I'll be using the Fluval Full Spectrum LED lighting that claims to be designed for plant use. Fluval Daylight Aqualife & Plant LED Aquarium Lamp - LED Aquarium Fish Tank Lights - petco.com I have the Fluval Pressurized CO2 88 kit. Freshwater Planted Aquarium & Plant Care: Fluval Pressurized CO2 Kit Ive purchased 2 bags of CaribSea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium substrate that I'll be adding Flourish Root Tabs to. I plan on the substrate being 3" deep. I also have the Fourish Comprehensive Suppliment along with their Potassium and Iron suppliments. For filtration I'll be using an Eheim ECCO 2232 canister. Aquarium Water Quality & Filtration: Eheim ECCO Canister Filters Does this sound sufficient? Any tips or suggestions? I dont plan on adding any fish initially, so do I still need to cycle the tank prior to adding plants?

I think this will be a great way to get used to plants, and without the addition of fish allows for more room for error. You don't need to wait to cycle the tank, the plants will actually help cycle it faster. My suggestion would be start with the easiest plants you want first, see how it goes, and build up to your more demanding plants. The fluval co2 will help a lot, but will get expensive rather quickly with the refills. If you're not starting with co2 demanding plants you can get away with using a liquid carbon supplement which will be a lot cheaper. Be sure to post pictures and updates, I'm curious to see how it goes for you and its always nice to be able to look back at a kind of journal for your tank

 

[Coyne]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

My current plant list is:
Glossostigma
Golden Nasae
Rotala Magenta
Anubis Hastifolia
and
Radican Sword

I currently have what I think is Vallisneria Spiralis growing somewhat successfully in my main tank (sans a little BBA) and am thinking about transplanting some of it.
Eventually, I hope to use some or all of these plants when I re-do my 45 gallon with better lighting, substrate and a pressurized CO2 system.

I know Anubis are suppose to be fairly easy, but as for the rest Im not sure how to place them in an "Easiest to Hardest" list.

I do have some API CO2 Booster that I can use until it becomes necessary to start using the pressurized CO2 system.

Im not sure if this is worth mentioning for plants, but my tap water is pretty hard with a high pH (around 8.2- 8.4). I have some peat that I can add to the canister and wouldnt be against adding driftwood to lower the pH, if such a thing would be helpful.
Also, is temperature as important for plants? I do not currently have a heater for the aquarium, but ambient room temperature usually keeps my tanks in the 75-79F range.

So far I have soft plans to put things together next weekend. Not sure if I'll get some plants then or let things run for a week first.

 

[Rivercats]

These plants need high light, CO2/liquid carbon, and a good fert dosing plan...

Glossostigma
Golden Nesaea *very hard plant to grow successfully
Rotala Magenta *easy but will only color well in higher light

I dose dry ferts via PPS-Pro as it allows me to custom dose to the needs of my tank. I have a lot of non green plants so run my tank with low nitrates (10ppm) and high phosphates (5-10ppm).

I would suggest starting with some water sprite as it is a fast grower and will help with cycling. I also suggest not using the Fluval CO2 system. You can use a liquid carbon such as Metricide 14 day solution. One gallon is about $27 shipped and it's mixed at a 1:1 ratio with RO or Distilled water to get 2 gallons for that price. In higher light you'd start with 1ml Glut for every 5 gallons and up it to 1ml Glut per 2 gallons of water in a couple weeks. If you do CO2 you'd be better off in the long run getting a CO2 paintball set up.

 

[Coyne]

I'll look into that Metricide when I get home and find out more about it. Unfortunately, I've already purchased the Fluval CO2 system and would rather not go through the hassle of returning it (still an option though). Fortunately, my "long term" is to have a well planted 45 gallon and I do plan on setting up a better CO2 for that. If nothing else, maybe the Fluval set up will get me accustomed to using pressurized CO2. The 20L is initially to help me gain some experience with aquatic plants in a tank that's a little easier to play with. My 45g is almost 2 ft deep and currently has 17 fish that freak out whenever I stick my hands in to clean out dead leaves and BBA.

River, you mentioned the need for high lighting a couple times. Do you feel the lighting I have will be insufficient?

 

[Rivercats]

I know nothing about that light fixture at all and it would be great if you could find some PAR information on it. That is what really determines how high your light is. The one good thing tho is a 20L is really shallow so it should give you pretty solid light.

The one thing I would not advise is to mess with the Golden Nesaea. I've had it over a year in my very high light (metal halides and T5HO's) ,100% planted, 220g dirted tank with an Eco Complete cap, CO2, and dosing dry ferts PPS-Pro and the plant has struggled. Not saying it can't be grown but it is a very difficult plant and one I wouldn't suggest starting out with when your new to planted tanks.

 

[Coyne]

Noted.. if you say its a tuffy, then that translates to impossible for me (for now ). A shame though, I really liked how it looked in the store.

Im not sure what PAR/PUR means, but it appears that Fluval doesnt provide that information... which isnt reassuring. I scanned through several different forums about this light fixture and the general consensus was that it does a decent job with low to medium light plants. However, most of the posters were using aquariums that were more than 12" deep. Bottom line is that this too will be part of the learning experience for me.

 

[Coyne]

So I got some stuff in over the past few days and plan on setting things up this weekend (both my plant nursery and the 20L community above it).

Question about the Eco-Complete: There's a liquid mixed in with the substrate. Im guessing its some sort of water conditioner. Will it "dry out" or will I need to add water right away.

Im curious to find out if the Fluval LED lights will function well enough for plants with higher lighting requirements.
While I did purchase (and will initially use) a variety of Flourish products, I think Im going to switch to PPS-Pro. Turns out its not as complicated as the string of letters and the word "Pro" suggested.

Other than aesthetics, is there a reason to invest in the glass "Lily" pipes?

Any last minutes words of advice or suggestions before I do something that cant easily be undone?

 

[Rivercats]

You will want to fill the tank once you add the Eco with it's liquid.

IMO the glass lily pipes are mostly for use in the fancy rimless tanks but I don't see a reason you can't use them if you want to.

Here's a good read on PPS-Pro but only read the opening post not all the comments after it. I've been dosing PPS-Pro for a long time and really like it because I can keep levels where I want them. The only two things I do different from the article is first unless you have really soft water with a Gh under 4 you don't need to dose MgSO4, magnesium sulfate. I buy the El fert package from Greenleaf Aquarium for $15 as it has the exact ferts you need. Their PPS-Pro package has magnesium in it which most likely you won't need since most tap water has plenty of magnesium in it. I also use the dosing bottles they sell as it makes dosing much easier. If you use the 500ml dosing bottles you just half the recipe on the thread.

The second thing I do differently is I mix nitrates KNO3, in their own dosing bottle and the Potassium and Phosphate in their own bottle. Reason for this is it allows you to use more or less of either macro nutrient to custom dose you tank to the levels you want. I take a nitrate and phosphate reading each week right before a WC to see how my levels are at the end of a dosing week. Then if one or both are too high or too low or just right I can make adjustments to how much I dose the next week. Since I have a lot of non-green plants I keep nitrates low at 10ppm and phosphates high at 5-10ppms. Plus you can always PM me with any questions once you get the ferts.

Newbie Guide to PPS-Pro - PPS Analysis and Feedback - Aquatic Plant Central... here's the link.

 

[Coyne]

Cool beans River. Thank you. I grabbed that link off of another thread you posted in and its what sold me on PPS. I had seen the term PPS-Pro in the past, and for some reason I had always just assumed is was some hyper complicated thing that would require a degree in chemistry. My water is crazy hard, so I'll follow your lead and forgo magnesium.

Also, Id like to say that I finally remembered to put the background on the tank BEFORE connecting everything and filling it up with water (although only just barely). I think maybe I have leveled up!

 

[Coyne]

Im not sure if its clear in the photo, but I have one of those metal 2-tank stands. Ive got all the hardware hooked up and water in both tanks. The problem Im having is getting the canister for the lower tank working properly. I dont think theres enough height difference between the filters intake and the filter itself. After a little work I was able to get it working, but there is still air inside the canister and no amount of rocking or shaking is getting it to expel the air and fill the rest of the way with water.

Does anybody have a similar setup or experience with low setting tanks using canister filters?

 

[Rivercats]

Im not sure if its clear in the photo, but I have one of those metal 2-tank stands. Ive got all the hardware hooked up and water in both tanks. The problem Im having is getting the canister for the lower tank working properly. I dont think theres enough height difference between the filters intake and the filter itself. After a little work I was able to get it working, but there is still air inside the canister and no amount of rocking or shaking is getting it to expel the air and fill the rest of the way with water.

Does anybody have a similar setup or experience with low setting tanks using canister filters?

I had a couple of those stands many years ago and ended up using only HOB's on the bottom tanks for the very reason you stated. I finally got rid of the stands as they ended up being more of a pain than anything for servicing the tanks on the lower level.

 

[Coyne]

Aw man! Not the answer I was hoping for, but better than no answer at all. Thanks for the info.
After playing with it some more it's a little better, but still not completely full. Im wondering if I could use a water pump to help fill the canister.

At any rate, everything is set up and (more or less) running. No plants yet, so here's a less than exciting picture.

 

[Rivercats]

I'm not a DIY person but hope you can figure out how to use the canister.

 

[Coyne]

Picked up some plants today. Just a random few that, at least Im told, will require a higher tech set up to grow properly. Hopefully these will give me an idea of how much I know vs how much I need to learn, as well as if my tank's lighting, CO2 and ferts are correct.

Golden Nesaea (despite Rivercat's words of caution, I still wanted to try)
Rotala indica
Green Tiger lotus and
Dwarf Baby Tears

I'll order up my first supply of the PPS-Pro stuff this weekend, but in the meantime I'll use the Flourish Comprehensive and supplement with Flourish Iron and Potassium.

Still futzing around with the canister. I may take the water pump out of my Fluval Spec and see if I can hook it up to the canister's intake pipe. Maybe I can force water in and air out.

 

[Coyne]

Here's a pic.. not much to show, but it will be something to compare my success or failure to.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

You can pump from lower to higher with a 350 gph powerhead. Just be sure to install a ball valve and back-flow preventer and you will be fine.
You can get the back flow preventer for about $12.00 at Lowes. Place it above the ball valve and the discharge pipe.
I use something similar with my 75 gallon tank which uses a sump. The back-flow preventer helps out if the power happens to go out. Your aquarium won't g into siphon mode and leak all of the water out onto the floor etc.
D

 

[Coyne]

Small update on this tank:
I had been dosing Flourish Comprehensive, Potassium and Iron three times a week, but yesterday I started this tank on the PPS-Pro. I think I'll still add Iron as before. I dont think there is any in either of the PPS-Pro solutions. I may even increase the Iron dosage... more on that later.

Lost a couple pads from the Lily. The stems just seemed to melt away. One of the remaining pads had started turning black along one of its edges. The rest of them seem healthy though, and I even see some tiny new ones forming.

Virtually no movement from the Dwarf Baby Tears. I know these can be difficult to grow and that, when they are growing, they grow slowly. Not sure which one it is. Probably a little of both.

And, some hair algae growing in the Golden Nasae. One clump is white and stringy and the other is dark and bushier. I'll start treating with hydrogen peroxide after lights out. Also, some of the leaves have darkened significantly. Some of it comes off if gently run my thumb over the leaves, so I'll chalk some of it up to diatoms. Im hoping more Iron will help with the rest. Also lost some of the lower leaves, likely due to lack of light.
On a positive note: There are new roots forming a couple inches up the stem and working their way towards the substrate.

I think the Rotala Indica has filled out some, but its difficult to tell. A little darkening of the leaves, but I think that may be mostly diatoms as well. I may get in there and see how much I can wipe off with my fingers.

Ive also picked up some Glossostigma. Theyre still in pots for now. I'll get around to planting them later today. Since they should grow faster than the DBT, I think they will be a good indicator of how well the Fluval Plant LED lighting is reaching the bottom. Hopefully I'll be able to get a nice, low carpet.

 

[Rivercats]

The micro mix of CSM+B your using in the dry ferts has all the iron you need in it. If you want you can add a touch of the liquid iron 1 or 2x a week until you use it up but you really don't need it.

 

[Coyne]

Finally got the Glossostigma planted and I have to say that getting it out of that fiberous planting material was WAAAAY more difficult than I anticipated. Im pretty sure that I lost 50% of the plants. So out of 2 pots purchased, there is maybe 1 pots worth in the tank. Its supposed to grow and carpet fairly quickly given the right conditions... so hopefully I have the right conditions.

The Rotala Indica is doing really well so far and has filled in considerably. The Golden Nesaea's color has improved since last week. The very tops are bright yellow and even though there are still darker, diatom covered leaves.. they have small bubbles forming on them. Im hoping this is the pearling I hear so much about.

The black that was forming on the edges of some of lotus leaves is turning clear and dissolving away.