Plant pearling?

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kaaikop

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
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Val-David, QC
Does it automatically mean that your CO2 levels are not right, if your plants are not pearling?
I have never seen this happening in my tank, like what you see on pictures...

Unless my KH testkit is completely wrong, my CO2 is in the 25-40ppm range right now. How come there is never any pearling?
I think I got enough light (444W for 150G), dosing is now done by E.I., getting good readings of NO3, PO4, Iron, shouldn't be an issue...

What's the secret? 8)
 
I rarely have it either. If you are algae free and have good growth I would not beat yourself up over it.
 
Well right now my tank is, let's say, recovering from much neglect and lots of algea...
But I hope I'm getting it back under control, there were few things I was doing wrong,
but this is a hobby where you always learn, and that's what makes it fun & challenging.
But I should would love to see that wild pearling you see on some of those pics... 8)

Heck, if I would want to have more CO2, my pH would dip below 6,0... That is pretty acid...
 
The only time my tank has stopped pearling was when I ran out of CO2. Try driving the pH down another .1 or .2 and keep an eye on things. IME if you are dosing NO3, have high-light and get your CO2 right your tank will look like a can of soda every afternoon/evening.

Of course there is something to be said about your plant biomass... it would be hard to get one sword plant to pearl in a 150 gallon tank for example... you need a good amount of plants producing O2 to get your tank to saturation point (i.e. pearling).
 
Let your plant mass increase and once you have enough photosynthesis you'll get pearling even if the depth of your tank prevents anything but the stuff floating from bubbling. You haven't reached O2 saturation is all.

What temp do you run your tank at? O2 saturation is dependent on temp. Higher temps make for a lower sat. point IIRC.
 
Oh I see... that's interesting enough. I run at 24.5C (sorry everything metric here...)
I would say that's around 77-78F? Is that too warm?
That is another thing that I had set at the beginning and never touched it again...
Maybe 22-23C would be better for everything?
 
I leave mine at 78-79 and all is happy... How are you coming to your CO2 calculation? I seem to remember reading that you use a pH meter (how long since you calibrated it? might need calibration or replacement)... ? When was the last time you tested your kH?

If you have a fair amount of plants, I would think you should try bumping your pH down a notch or two with more CO2 and see if that doesn't solve the mystery...

What kind of plants do you have?
 
I have my tank set at 79f (Yes, I use f for precise measuring.. even tho I'm in Canada) and get plants putting off O2 bubbles about 2 hours after lights on.. (Echinodorus quadricostatus var. ''magdalenensis'') but they don't stick. Even with lower plant mass I'm getting close to pearling.. 3 plants I have that put off a lot of O2 are the one mentioned above, Shin. "weiss grun" and Glosso.. those 3 make up a huge part of my O2 production.

I run 390w on a 120Gal (4x2x2).
 
Testing KH almost daily lately (keeping an eye on things)
pH monitor (sms122) calibrated few days ago... had not drifted one bit in 2 years (amazing...)

But.... as I said, I'm already at 6,1 pH... I dont have a problem with putting more CO2,
just concerned about the tank getting way too acid (for fish & plants...)

As far as plants... well I do need to get some fast growing plants... right now only slow & moderate... will go at the LFS tomorrow and see what I can find, I know that would help.
 
You must have a nearly non-existent kH ??? I would consider buffering up to 4-6 dKh. This should let you maintain a 6.5-6.7 pH level with good CO2. What is your gH at? Are you using RO water or are you just using tap?
 
KH is 30ppm (GH 60ppm). Just using regular tap water...
I dont know why but my tank got really soft over time, when I first started my KH was around 60.

How do you go about raising the KH?
 
You can add baking soda to your water or you can add crushed coral to your filter. The cc is much easier as it will last 6 months or so and you don't have to worry about adding it at each water change.
 
Baking soda?? no kidding?
Any idea where I could find a calculator or utility to find out how much I would need to add?
 
Wow! thanks buddy!
I tried it (dissolved 1 tbsp. in 2 liters of water), KH went from 30ppm to 50ppm,
PH went from 6.1 to 6.3, talk about immediate relief!
the fish dont seem to mind at all.
I will try to find crushed coral, on my next trip to LFS.
I cant wait to see the pearling tomorrow (hopefully).

Thanks for the help! 8)
 
Changing your KH will not cause the plants to pearl. There is no need to adjust your KH value. Driving your pH down with CO2 will not have any adverse effects on your plants or fish. My pH is normally 6.0, due to my KH being around 1.5 degrees. There are a number of people who run the pH much lower. Also, changing your KH very quickly is VERY stressful to fish.

Tom Barr said:
A KH of 20ppm is still fine, 30-40ppm is fine also.
I generally will not add KH unless it's less than 20ppm.

I've done tanks with no KH also, but had to add the KH to get a ball park range of CO2, then removed all the KH later.

You may just need to add more CO2 is all and the accuracy of the pH test kit might be part of the issue. A pH pen or pH monitor might be a wise item to get. also, make sure to turn off any electrical devices before taking a reading and calibrate the probe often.

Do not just measure once either, measure several times thoughout one day to see how the CO2 vary over a typical day(measure just when the lights and CO2 are on).

Afterwards, this will give a fairly good idea what the CO2 is doing and you can predict what ranges the CO2 is. then you will not need to test much again so much unless there is a problem with algae, or plant growth slows down dramatically etc. Then the pH pen/monitors make a quick spot check from then on fairly easy and quick.

Do not think of a any measurement, CO2 in particular of all the measurement test we do, as a stable level throughout the day. It varies, so just seeing one point in time does not tell you that much. It's more work to test every 1-2 hours, but it does give you a much better idea of the patterns with CO2.

It's not something I'd suggest you do as a routine though.
Many folks assume their CO2/opH is the saem if they take one single measurement and post that, some folks post a range of pH's for the day(better).

Now that is just day variation, add week variation or monthly variations and folks can have a very wide difference.

If the CO2 is stable over the month etc, then you have pretty nice growth and little/no algae.


Regards,
Tom Barr

from www.barrreport.com
 
In general there is no need to raise Kh, except in response to specific animal needs. Ph drop due to CO2 is not sometthing to be concerned with too much. Soft water, does just fine for most plants and animals. More often the need is to boost the Gh in very soft water, that is due to calcium and magnesium shortages in that same soft water.
Unless keeping african cichlids, then kh boosting with baking soda is not overly benficial. Not to say that is is harmful either. Just not needed. Kh boosting with CC, or Calcium Carbonate, privides needed calcium, with the carbonate boost a side effect.

edit: i type slow....but see that rkilling was thinking down the same lines at the same time ;-)
 
Randy - How low do you drive your CO2? It is quite common for folks using RO/DI water to use Alkalinity/KH and GH buffers for more complete control of water parameters. A higher KH will let you maintain a higher pH/CO2 ratio. I am not sure about Baking Soda, but I know Seachem has a couple of products for this purpose.

How low is too low in terms of CO2? IME fish and plants like a 6-7 range. As you get into the 5.x levels, where is the red line?
 
dapellegrini said:
Randy - How low do you drive your CO2? It is quite common for folks using RO/DI water to use Alkalinity/KH and GH buffers for more complete control of water parameters. A higher KH will let you maintain a higher pH/CO2 ratio. I am not sure about Baking Soda, but I know Seachem has a couple of products for this purpose.

How low is too low in terms of CO2? IME fish and plants like a 6-7 range. As you get into the 5.x levels, where is the red line?

I don't have an answer to that Dan. I can tell you I have had my pH in the upper 5's. I think Tom would be able to answer that question better then I would.

I know 7Enigma was running a very low pH for some time and Sherry runs hers in the upper 5's as well.

Buffering your water, IME, is more for those who want a sense of security. I have stated this before, but it seems the more difficult a species is to grow, the softer your water needs to be.

Look at Tom's quote, he was running a tank without any buffers. I would think the pH would be in the upper 4's to lower 5's to make that possible.
 
i was thinking about this, and you almost never see plants in nature pearling, do you? i think while pearling is a nice way of showing us that the plant is actively alive and thriving, it is not necessarily a thing to aim for. it certainly isn't "bad" per se, but i believe it is somewhat unnatural.
 
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