Plant suggestions please + should i use co2? - UPDATE

[elliott_001]

I have a 30Gal tank, with a fair amount of plants in it. The plants are doing well, i seem to get quite a lot of algae growth, hair algae.

From what i can make out, the light is a 30w OSRAM daylight bulb (tank was given to me, writing on the bulb has faded somewhat!).

I think most of the plants i have are fairly easy to care for, i havnt had many die, or go wrong. I would like to do some re-arranging, and get some new plants. Can anybody suggest any plants, im after some very low growing plants, to cover an area of substrate, i would also like some different colours other than green! I really like the red crypt? - i think thats what it is. I have some java moss, which need to get going, but im just after some plants that wont rocket to the surface (like my others!).

Should i start using co2? I have seen this cheap on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HAGEN-NUTRAFI...itemZ7750887068QQcategoryZ66794QQcmdZViewItem
I know its cheap, but it would help wouldnt it? Or should i just carry on as i am?

Here is a picture of my tank taken a while ago.
TIA!

 

[PrettyFishies]

The problem with low light is that the red plants don't do well. Red plants need High Light and Co2 to grow at their best. Not sure whta you could get away with with low light.

As for teh hair algae - do you have otos? amano shrimp? the shrimp especially love hair algae.

Nice tank BTW

 

[elliott_001]

Ok thanks, so i would need to upgrade my light and add co2 to grow some red plants. Do i just get a new, more powerful tube for my hood? Or is there more to it than that?

I have 5 oto's, they and my rubber lip pleco eat most of the algae, but dont seem to eat the hair algae. Maybe they just dont know they can eat it, lol.

TIA

 

[travis simonson]

Nice looking tank

Actually, red Crypts will probably do fairly well in your conditions since you've been able to grow other low-light plants. Cryptocoryne wendtii "Red" is most likely the plant you've seen. It is a very hardy Crypt that grows in just about any conditions.

I'm not an expert on DIY CO2, but I think the Hagen CO2 system is a decent one. Hopefully someone with more familiarity will comment on it. I would encourage you to supplement CO2 since DIY CO2 is so easy and cheap to set up on tanks like yours. It will do wonders for your plants and will really help you get rid of your algae. If your plants are doing well with your current lighting, then I would recommend sticking with it and upgrading to DIY CO2 first. Increase lighting later if you decide that you want to try growing some higher light plants

 

[Jchillin]

I am currently growing a variety of plants in low light without supplemental CO2. As Travis mentions, c. wendtii "red" is a very hardy plant and I find it keeps it red color in my tank. I also have L. repens and it keeps a slight orange color on the bottom of the leaves. I also just got my hands on some Rotala rotundifolia. It's been a couple of weeks and the red is still shining through.

In regard to the algae, I don't have a clue as to why I've never had any hair algae. I do have traces of BBA (grrrrr) but it never laid a hand on the plants, just the driftwood. I change 30% of the water bi-monthly. I do dose some potassium...maybe a little NO3 when needed.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

In regard to the algae, I don't have a clue as to why I've never had any hair algae. I do have traces of BBA (grrrrr) but it never laid a hand on the plants, just the driftwood. I change 30% of the water bi-monthly. I do dose some potassium...maybe a little NO3 when needed.

Just for clarification, did you mean bi-monthly (every 2 months) or twice a month?

 

[Jchillin]

In regard to the algae, I don't have a clue as to why I've never had any hair algae. I do have traces of BBA (grrrrr) but it never laid a hand on the plants, just the driftwood. I change 30% of the water bi-monthly. I do dose some potassium...maybe a little NO3 when needed.

Just for clarification, did you mean bi-monthly (every 2 months) or twice a month?

Bi (two) - Monthly. Thus, twice a month or every two weeks.

 

[mr funktastic]

i have the hagen co2 system on my 20 gallon and it is absolutly amazing. u will actually see more results by adding co2 then adding more light. this system is only rated for up to 20 gallons but should still provide results. u may want to think about running 2 of these. if on the planted forum u will see a thread called before and after. that is my thread of what my tank looked like 2 weeks after the co2 and then about a month after. amazing results and my plants were doing just as well as yours were. i juts started dosing flourish so i hope that will help also.good luck with whatever u do.

 

[7Enigma]

I'll second the CO2. Under low light conditions (under 1wpg), adding more light is actually better than adding CO2. Above 1wpg, CO2 and light are almost equal in increasing plant growth. Ideally if your willing to increase the light level further, CO2 is manditory for good results (I'd recommend AGAINST the Hagen since you have a 30gallon). A cheap DIY setup can be made for under $20 and it should only take a couple hours at most even for the most un-handy person.

I would still prefer to add CO2 rather than more light due to the possibility of increased algae, but at your level, either is a good choice.

I also see that the tank light was given to you. You might need to replace the bulb, since as they get older, while they still look the same, the wavelengths of light that are output change and can cause algae problems.

Also, are you dosing nitrAtes? You seem to have a lot of plants and I can't see any fish (so low bioload). Low nitrAte levels can hamper plant growth and cause algae to become present. I think I read somewhere that BBA is normally attributed to low nitrAte concentrations (but I could be mistaken).

Goodluck, you'll be extremely pleased with the additions.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

With most ground cover, you will need a bit more light. You might be able to get away with clover, but not 100% sure.

 

[Guest]

I see all these comments on the co2 and I didn't see one person say anything about the air bubble wall in the back ground. With any amount of plants in a tank a air stone isn't a good ideal at all. It robs the plants of any co2 that is in the tank.

Then also One of the best alge eats is mollies. They will eat any kind of algee.

 

[Purrbox]

Actually, as long as there isn't any CO2 being injected into the tank, the airstone will improve CO2 levels by helping to maintain atmospheric levels. It's only when you are injecting CO2 that you need to minimize surface agitation to prevent gassing off the excess CO2.

 

[Guest]

Now I've always understoad it to be the oppiste no matter if there's co2 being added to the tank are not. It will still remove the co2 from the by frocing the movement of the water. I have also run a air stone and checked co levels using. The chart on chuck planted tank page. With air stone it was at 8.2ppm with out air stone and beig with out it for 3days before testing the tank it was 12.0ppm.
I myself use a DIY co2 with 3x 2-liter bottles and using wine yeast. My co2 levels stays at 27.9ppm at any time either the start of the mix or the end of it. i've got it mastered to where it will last for 18days. Not bad I thank. Plus the plants { all middum light and low light } have to have a hair cut every two weeks.

 

[7Enigma]

Now I've always understoad it to be the oppiste no matter if there's co2 being added to the tank are not. It will still remove the co2 from the by frocing the movement of the water. I have also run a air stone and checked co levels using. The chart on chuck planted tank page. With air stone it was at 8.2ppm with out air stone and beig with out it for 3days before testing the tank it was 12.0ppm.
I myself use a DIY co2 with 3x 2-liter bottles and using wine yeast. My co2 levels stays at 27.9ppm at any time either the start of the mix or the end of it. i've got it mastered to where it will last for 18days. Not bad I thank. Plus the plants { all middum light and low light } have to have a hair cut every two weeks.

I take it you are pretty well stocked with fish in the tank then? Normal dissolved CO2 is between 3-5ppm from what I've read when no CO2 injection is done. The difference you saw is either variation in measurement (it's extremely difficult to tell the difference between individual pH units and GH KH units on the liquid test kits), or a difference when you took the measurements. Were they ALWAYS taken at the same time of day with no addition of nutrients or water changes? Even then a difference of 4ppm of CO2 is all but impossible to measure.

I can theoretically see a very highly stocked tank with low aeration having slightly higher CO2 levels due to the fish respiring, but in almost every case where the tank is not overstocked your better off having as MUCH agitation as possible. Only when injecting ADDITIONAL CO2 would you want minimum agitation.

 

[elliott_001]

Firstly, wow! cant believe the response i have got, thanks! Im definately gonna start using co2!

My tank is fully stocked now, you cant really see in the pic (it was a while ago), my tank houses:
3 zebra loach
4 oto's
1 rainbow shark
4 cherry barbs
2 dwarf gouramis
1 black spotted bulldog pleco
2 german blue rams

mr funktastic, those tanks look great!

I think i will go for DIY Co2 injection, seems most people do it that way.
About the airstone/agitation - so if i start using co2 i should avoid using an airstone? How will i airate the water? o2 is still needed. Or so i just use the airstone on low?

My nitrates are always quite high, i thought that was what was helping the algae grow, and now im thinking the bulb could be causing algae probs too. I'll have to change it.

Ground cover plants are the ones im after, i would like some red crypt in amongst it too. lonewolf - Clover looks like the kind of stuff im after! I dont know the names of these low growing ground cover plants! Any more suggestions? I want to create a low foreground area in my tank.

I have black sand for my substrate, i could have used a more fertile substrate, but i wasnt thinking of getting this involved with plants when i set up my tank. I could add a few fert tabs here and there. The sand doesnt contain many nutrients!

How should i go about building this DIY Co2? I understand you use plastic drinks bottles, and an airstone and ferment yeast to produce co2? Or something along those lines
What quantities should i use for my tank?
Is there a link to a thread?

Thanks to everyone for your help so far!

 

[7Enigma]

I think i will go for DIY Co2 injection, seems most people do it that way.
About the airstone/agitation - so if i start using co2 i should avoid using an airstone? How will i airate the water? o2 is still needed. Or so i just use the airstone on low?

My nitrates are always quite high, i thought that was what was helping the algae grow, and now im thinking the bulb could be causing algae probs too. I'll have to change it.

Air stones are not needed in planted tanks since the whole purpose of injecting CO2 is to feed the plant. During lighted periods the plants strip the C from CO2 and release, yup you've guessed it, O2 into the water. The plants will produce all the oxygen your tank needs which will be supplimented by the filter for any additional O2 (but you could probably completely unhook your filter from an O2 perspective).

While the bulb is probably a potential culprit, its more likely the lack of CO2. You can have all the nitrAte in the tank you want, all the light too, but without a constant supply of CO2 and other macro and micro nutrients the plants will grow slowly and you will be overtaken by algae and diatoms. Honestly I find the plant care to be far more demanding than the fish care. With fish, they are very simple. Feed them, keep the water clean and the proper temp, and you can pretty much be guaranteed they will be fine. With plants, since you are normally increasing light level, its a very fine line between having beautiful plants and a green tank.

Do a search for "DIY CO2" and you will get a number of walkthroughs with pictures to help you build a system. It really is quite simple once you get all the parts in front of you.

 

[Guest]

I don't use a strip tester or a liquid tester. I use a hand hold water meter used by most all water treatment plants in the U.S. it measures up to ppb,ppm,units,ml,micro meters { or something to that afect} in 15 differnt settings from PH to KH, Amonia to co2 , I can test the amount of o2 coming off the top of the water throw a nose on the unit if I needed to. It's by Clearlabs in Hong kong. I got it frommy brother who is a water treatment specalist for the U.S. amry.
This unit is used in setting up safe water facelateys for the troops. It will even tell me the type of minrals in the water and to what level that minral is present. I feed all the reading into a program on my laptop. It's huge facter in my tanks life . I can go up to 4 weeks with out a water change of any amount. Normaly don't but could.

 

[Guest]

Has anyone every seen this link on starting a planted tank.
http://www.tropicalresources.net/phpBB2/lowlighttank.php

Here's the last two paragrghes in this artical

Plant very heavily right from the start making 75% of the plants fast growing stem plants. Adding some floating hornwort or similar is also very beneficial at the start, just limit the surface coverage to 20%. tock with small fish and a low number for the first 3-4 months, but always try to keep a low fish load in a low tech planted tank. It’s a good idea to have an algae cleanup crew consisting of any one or a combination of the following; Siamese Algae Eater (SAE), Amano or Cherry Shrimp, Otocinclus (Otos catfish), American Flag or Florida Flag Fish, and Rosey Barbs.

Here’s the part that makes most people cringe. Leave it alone. No water changes, no fertilizer. Only add tap water weekly or as needed to top off the tank due to evaporation. If your plants show signs of nutrient deficiencies such as yellow leaves or holes in the leaves you can add a Comprehensive fertilizer such as Flourish or Tropica Master Grow once a week until improvement is noticed then only add it once a month thereafter. Limit water changes to times immediately after you’ve uprooted plants or done a major pruning. Personally I change water in my low tech tanks about once every 3-4 month at pruning/replanting time.

If you can leave the tank alone it will not disappoint you. The more you dabble with this type tank the more likely you’ll upset the balance and algal problems will appear. If this approach seems too tame and you desire more involvement then you should consider the high light CO2 injected tank.
Has anybody every set a new tank up this way???

 

[Purrbox]

8.2ppm and 12ppm are not atmospheric levels of CO2. Even with a heavy fish load you aren't going to see levels that high without CO2 injection. This means that there is probably something else in your water buffering it and invalidating the standard CO2 formula.

Elliot - There is no need for the airstone, your plants and Filter will sufficiently aerate the water without it.

Marsilea Minuta is one of the smallest clovers, you can also look for other Marsilea sp. Most of the remaining ground cover plants would definately require more light than your tank has. For more of a grassy look you could try Dwarf Hairgrass, Dwarf Sag or Pygmy Chain Sword, but these may also require more light than you have.

Plant tabs are a good idea, especially under the crypts and swords if you have any.

Here the best article I've come across for DIY CO2.

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

In regard to the algae, I don't have a clue as to why I've never had any hair algae. I do have traces of BBA (grrrrr) but it never laid a hand on the plants, just the driftwood. I change 30% of the water bi-monthly. I do dose some potassium...maybe a little NO3 when needed.

Just for clarification, did you mean bi-monthly (every 2 months) or twice a month?

Bi (two) - Monthly. Thus, twice a month or every two weeks.

I get paid bi-weekly, or every other week.. which is what I think you meant (weekly, not monthly)