PMDD and Plantex questions

[dr_girlfriend]

With my bigger tank, flourish is a little expensive. I was thinking of getting some dry ferts off Greg Watsons site. I'm just a little confused about which one would be better. The PMDD Pre-Mix, Plantex CSM+B Plus Extra Iron, or CSM+B Plantex 1 lb. What is the difference between them really? Any suggestions?

 

[czcz]

By real difference, do you want percentages of solution and dosing examples?

Attempt at explanation: If you plan on dosing macros (KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4 on GregWatson.com) you would want to choose a Plantex product. CSM+B plus Extra Iron just saves time for those who want more Fe; CSM+B already has iron.

If you want to dose one solution of macros and micros together, you would want PMDD Pre-mix. Many think this archaic because of its one size fits all mentality. You could also make your own PMDD-like mix, specific to your tank uptake, with the CSM+B and macros.

HTH

 

[greenmaji]

It would depend on your planted tank.. example: you might just need more NO3 or PO4 or you might have algae problems.. this is were making your own PMDD is advantagous.. HTH

 

[dr_girlfriend]

I was just looking for macros, micros I usually does every 2 days and macros once a week. I have to add extra fe and potassium, I used to do it on a daily basis, but since i had surgery Ive laxed and the plants show it. I like to use the estimated index method right now, its much easier and been working so far. So maybe the csmb plus iron would be best? I like flourish, but for a 90 I think that will get a little costly. flourish trace stretches a little further, so ill probably stick with that. I;m not really interested in mixing my own, too lazy
I just wasnt quite sure what the difference between csmb and plantex were.

 

[czcz]

Get well soon How I understand it is Plantex is the CSM, B is the Boron (makes the classic CSM+B, and Greg adds this as a service), and the Plus Extra Iron is Greg's idea.

Yeah, I think you should get Plantex CSM+B Plus Extra Iron. It may be a while until Travis or Malkore or Steve Hampton or another advisor shows up, and explaining helps me, so hope how I would choose will help.

Say you do 3Tbl in 500mL of water (popular mix). 9mL of CSM+B in your 90 gal brings you to about .17ppm Fe. Same dose of CSM+B with extra iron gives you about .26ppm Fe. Both these numbers are reasonable under the Estimative Index. With some plants its very rewarding to increase iron, and Tom Barr's openness with results from very high ppm is encouraging. So if you don't mind the $9 and think you may want to mess with iron alone later, I think you should get the Fe chelate too.

I think I remember you liking the book: Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium suggests limiting Fe limits algae. Many aquarists suggest .1ppm Fe max. Just something to keep in mind.

Fe becomes unavailable quickly, and it forms a percipatate with PO4 (tested with KH2PO4 after reading Tom Barr post about it in another forum), so you'll probably want to dose opposite macro days (following high light EI) when you feel better. Travis recommended here to use wisteria as an indicator of iron levels, as it turns yellow with low Fe and bounces back quickly, should you want to use plants as indicators. I've been propogating wisteria and removing anacharis from my fuge since this recommendation, because he's right and its a nice saftey net, and wisteria is pretty cool.

Anyway, HTH

 

[malkore]

Here's the deal: Plantex CSM is a trace mix ONLY. Greg Watson adds some iron as an option, which then makes Plantex a full trace mix, since it normally lacks enough iron.
I use normal plantex, and dose flourish Iron for my iron source...at least for now.

PMDD is a complete macro/micro dosing routine. PMDD contains nitrate, phosphate, potassium, traces, but no iron (because Iron forms an insoluable precipitate when mixed with mono-potassium phosphate).

The problem with PMDD si that its generic..and every tank is unique. So PMDD might work ok in tank A, but in tank B you end up with too much phosphate, while tank C has too much nitrate.
PMDD doesn't address any specific nutrient deficiencies...it just throws the entire gambit of nutriets at the problem which can easily make it worse.

PMDD seems simple because it is...since there's no control. Tom Barr's EI method isn't much harder, but you have complete control over each macro, and you can still test as often as you like if you suspect things have 'changed' in the tank.

 

[greenmaji]

I was just assuming that PMDD was home made doseing drops ie. you make them with the seperate nutrients.. Ie sorry about my ignorance, my bad..

 

[czcz]

To avoid confusion, CSM+B is 6.53% Fe, CSM+B Plus Extra Iron is 10% Fe, and PMDD Pre-Mix on GregWatson.com omits PO4 but keeps Fe (from regular CSM+B).

Later,
Joe

 

[dr_girlfriend]

Ok, I think I understand a little better now.

Malkore, you say you use regular plantex, but I don;t see plain plantex on his site. Is there somewhere else to get it?

czcz, thanks for the well wishing Regarding limiting fe limiting algae, so far I have had almost no algae in the tank I dose everyday. And to tell you how bad I am, I don't measure or test for it either. I just squirt some out of the bottle straight in the tank. Im kind of suprised I havent had any problems I actually havent tested that tank for anything in quite a while before tonight. I tested because my diy co2 was bubbling off the hook, and it was at 40ppm 8O Works for me, fish are fine and plants are in love with my tank. I'm thinking of investing in red sea flora base for my 90gallon tank because ive had such great results in my 10. The root systems and growth are incredible.

Anyway, I'll think about the csmb+iron. I'll see how things are after a few weeks of running the tank before I buy anything. Thanks so much for your help guys! I'm one of those math and chemistry deficient people.

 

[malkore]

by "plain plantex" I mean plantex CSM+B. no added iron.

I think the only way to buy plantex retail is a 50lb bag. people like greg watson do us a favor by 'investing' in the big bag and then sharing for approx. the same cost they incurred. We all win