prerequisite to co2?

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What type of filter do you have and how were you planning to diffuse your CO2?
 
i bought the hagen system and it should be in this week and i think the hagen system just goes into the tank , do i need to put that in the filter i think it is all self contained and i have a top fin 20
 
If your doing a DIY CO2, the answer is basically nothing. As long as your GH and KH are adequate (higher than 3degrees, preferably 5), and your tap pH isn't in the 6's to start (won't be if your hardness levels are fine), you can do no wrong with CO2. Try not to fluctuate the CO2 too much (don't unhook it at night, or make 2 batches and blast the CO2 in the tank too quickly), as this could stress the fish or invite algae, but CO2 really is harmless. Many people devise ways of trapping the CO2 in the tank as long as possible before the bubble reaches the surface. Some make reactors with powerheads, some have spiral "staircases" for the bubbles to slowly move upwards, some just stick the tube in the tank and hope for the best.

Personally I have a terra cotta pot upside down in the tank and have the tubing going into the pot. The pot is on a slight angle and takes about 100 bubbles before a giant bubble rises to the surface. This has worked extremely well (actually too well due to my small tank) and is probably the cheapest, easiest way to make sure the CO2 has good contact with the water column. If you have a HOB filter (I have an aquaclear) try to get the water level as high as safely possible in the tank so you don't agitate the CO2 out of the water. I also set the power setting to the far right during the day time (lowest flow) so the max amount of CO2 is in the water, and then at night set the power setting to the far left (max flow) so the least amount of CO2 is present and better filtration of ammonia and nitrIte occur. Remember if you have a good amount of plants there is no real reason (other than eliminating the ammonia and nitrIte) to have the filter flow be maxed out since the plants are producing a large amount of oxygen (during lighted periods). If you have a canister filter you really don't have a problem since there is no waterfall effect.

Now high light, on the other hand, can be much more problematic if you just slap on a 1Megawatt lamp and hope for the best.... :D

EDIT:

nitrous, the Hagen system is not really recommended on this site unless you have a really small tank (do you have a 20gallon?). It does not produce enough CO2 to maintain proper levels in larger tanks (I think anything over 20gallons). They are really REALLY easy to make and we can give you all the formulas for making the mixture. I know the Hagen is nice in that they give you premixed reagents, but it does not get that great reviews.
 
do you have diy or a system? im just going to put the bubble counter inside and then have the tube, if any, go into a pot like you said

im proly at my max for like, as of now, i have 34 watts of 2 17 t8s so even thougfh is only 34 watts i think the t8s give out more lumens so its actually better than that and ill make sure to keep the water level higher
 
I made a DIY out of some spare parts. My total cost was under $20 and it can probably supply enough CO2 for a 29gallon at least, if not a 35-40gallon.

Your at a bit more than 1.5wpg which is a great time to add CO2. This will help prevent possible algae and diatom outbreaks from the light level.

If you do decide to stick with the Hagen kit, after your supplies run out, I'm pretty sure you can use our normal formulas so that you don't have to buy their expensive refill kits.

I have a 2L system and use this formula:

-add 1 package of baker's yeast to a cup of cold water (stir it up until there are no chunks)
-2 cups sugar (dissolve in hot water in the 2L bottle)
-fill 2/3 up with lukewarm water
-add in the cup of yeast (but make sure the water in the 2L bottle is NOT hot)
-Add in 1 tablespoon of baking powder (NOT baking soda)
-fill the 2L bottle with lukewarm water to about 2-3 inches below the top (keeps junk out of the tank)
-cap the bottle and hook the system up to the tank

This supplies me with between 2-4 weeks of good CO2 output, then you simply dump the old stuff out and refill. Total cost for the refill is under 2 bucks.

HTH
 
ya i got the whole hagen for like 15 with a coupon :) my total bill was 31 with the coupon and the 31 was the hagen kit, the refill, and shipping which is all less than the one at the lfs so ya i just tested my parameters and i had only 4 ppm of nitrate and my ph with the high range test was 7.8
 
Since you are using a Hagen System everything is self contained. Even in smaller tanks you may find that it provides sufficient CO2 levels. Another thing to note is that you may have trouble getting the mixture to start producing CO2 if you use the full packet of Stabilizer. The stabilizer will increase the hardness of the water to prolong the length of the mixture, however it will also slow down the mixture and if you have hard water could prevent it from starting. If you have problems getting it to start try halving or even leaving the stabilizer out.

You can replace the premeasured packets with the following:
Activator = 1/8 tsp Champagne Yeast
Stabilizer = 1 tsp Baking Soda

I'm not familiar with your filter, but if it just a basic HOB filter without a biowheel, all you would need to do is maintain the water level so that the water doesn't splash when returning to the tank. If it does have a biowheel, you'll want to remove it as they are excellant at outgassing all that CO2 your working so hard to inject.
 
ya its just like a whisper but named top fin and yes hob no bio wheel so ya i dont like iot being low already, three tanks in 1 room gets loud :) so ill have to refill this 1 every week and the others every 2 which is when they usually get loud, according to my ph results what is the low and hard levels usually mine was around 7.8
 
Hardness is measured with GH and KH test kits. These have to be independantly measured from PH. If you water company hasn't done anything really odd while treating you water is probably moderately hard based on you PH, but only the test kits will tell for sure. If you're going to be injecting CO2 you really need to buy the KH kit, otherwise it will be very difficult to determine your CO2 level which will make troubleshooting difficult.
 
alright ill do that when i go to the lsf next
and yes this is for my 20 gal tank engima
thanks

so for this systm all i need to do it hook it up and should i put the bubble counter near the outflow of the filter so it pushed around the tank or will the oxygen from that just diffuse the co2?
 
I'd try to keep the bubble counter AWAY from the filter. Some people put the outlet directly into the inlet of the filter. I tried this on my filter and it didn't sound great as the bubbles were messing up the impeller of the filter. I'd recommend NOT using this method unless you try it and don't run into problems.

While pumping the CO2 to the outflow will help mix better, trapping the CO2 in the water is better IMO to get the highest and most consistent CO2 amount in the tank (since the bubbles won't just float up and out of the tank). I don't know exactly how the Hagen is set up, but if you can run a tube to something that will trap the CO2 for a couple of minutes (the pot in my tank for example) you will get great saturation of CO2.

Purrbox,

Thanks for clearing up the yeasts production rates with the hardness of the water. I made a mistake in my last batch and used 1-2 tablespoons of baking soda instead of baking powder, then added in a tablespoon of baking powder, and my CO2 was barely producing if at all. The next morning it had started to bubble about 1 every 3 seconds, I shook it, and it stopped again! So I just let it sit and by the next day it was up to about a bubble per second, where its been which is perfect. Last time I made the CO2 it went way to quickly (about 2 bubbles a second) and was spent within 2 weeks so I think my soft tap water needs to be hardened up a bit to extend the CO2 and prevent the pH from dropping quite as far.
 
7Enigma - No problem. Also the Hagen system uses a ladder to increase bubble contact time with the water. It actually works pretty well for a passive diffuser, just takes up a fair amount of space.

In the instructions for the diffuser it will tell you to place the output at different levels depending on the size of your tank. Ignore them and put it right at the bottom of the ladder. This will give you the best CO2 levels possible with the diffuser.

I believe the general recommendation for DIY CO2 is one 2 Liter bottle for every 10 gallons of water in your tank. The Hagen system is only a 1 liter container. So even though it is recommended by the manufacturer for upto 20 gallon tanks, by standard DIY CO2 recommendations it would only be enough for a 5 gallon tank. Even then, when I was running it in my 5 gallon tank, I was only getting CO2 levels around 15ppm. This would be enough for improvement on a lower light tank, but insufficient for most high light setups.
 
Hmm that's interesting.

I have a 2L setup and with my soft water was getting between 30 and 50ppm of CO2 (30 during the day, and 50 at night). I was really scared my bacteria would stop converting ammonia and nitrIte, and that my fish might die from such crazy pH swings (6.0-7.2). I had to reduce the efficiency of my upside-down pot method so that it didn't trap quite so much CO2 before "burping". I figure this setup would be good for at least 30gallons if not slightly more. I think the speed of production is very important, but moreso how well you can keep the CO2 in the water (high water level with my Aquaclear and low flow). I didn't know that by general rule I should have 2 2L's going at once....
 
Obviously you had a really good diffuser setup and as a result were getting really good CO2 levels in the tank. Were you by any chance, using a formula other than the standard yeast, sugar, water mix? Some of these mixes will output a ton more CO2 which means that you wouldn't need as many (or as large) of bottles.

Something else to keep in mind is that PH swings caused by changing CO2 levels aren't anywhere near as stressful on fish as PH swings caused by changes in the KH. So you're fish were probably weren't in any danger from the PH swings.
 
ya i have a pot in there now so i can keep that in there but turn it over and rill some more wholes in it for more water and co2 interaction and then the co2 will go out of the wholes or i can keep the 1 whole at the top and that will be the only exit
 
Purrbox said:
Obviously you had a really good diffuser setup and as a result were getting really good CO2 levels in the tank. Were you by any chance, using a formula other than the standard yeast, sugar, water mix? Some of these mixes will output a ton more CO2 which means that you wouldn't need as many (or as large) of bottles.

Something else to keep in mind is that PH swings caused by changing CO2 levels aren't anywhere near as stressful on fish as PH swings caused by changes in the KH. So you're fish were probably weren't in any danger from the PH swings.

Nope, single package of baker's yeast (the powder kind), a little over 2 cups of sugar, and a teaspoon or tablespoon (can't remember) of baking powder. It went a bit too quickly, most likely from my very soft tap water, so in later batches I've added baking soda to slow the yeast down a bit and it is now working much slower.

I wasn't too worried about the fish, but the bacteria are much more sensitive metabolically to the actual pH of the water (regardless of what is causing it to fluctuate).
 
They can't. It's generally considered somewhat of an inhibitor. What I meant was that by fluctuating DOWN so that very little CO2 would be present (say by adding some baking soda which will slow/stall the reaction, or allowing a bottle to sit empty for a day or two) you can invite an algae outbreak, as happened to my tank when my DIY stopped producing but remained under medium light.
 
Actually you weren't using a standard mix. First off you are using way more yeast than normal. 1/8 to 1/4 tsp is the most that you would need, an entire packet is much more than this. Second I haven't seen Baking Power being added to a mix before, so I'm not sure what it's supposed to do. Reguardless, due to the amount of yeast that was added you would get a very high output of CO2 for a short duration, which explains your high CO2 levels.
 
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