Pressurized CO2

[Fishyfanatic]

After researching and talking with other members, it appears that for a 55 gal tank a pressurized CO2 system would be preferred in place of a DIY unit. Correct?

I called around to several of our lfs and no one carries Pressurized units. So it looks like I will be doing my purchasing online.

Has anyone used the Red Sea CO2 Pro System? Or how about the Deluxe w/ Solenaid version? What is the difference between the two? They are the exact same description but the Deluxe version is $60 more.

Do you have a recommendation for a better unit than the Red Sea?

 

[Purrbox]

I think you will be much happier going with Pressurized CO2. The biggest drawback is the initial expense. After that you'll recoup your costs in saved time, better control over CO2 levels, and actual monetary savings.

Generally you're not going to be picking up a CO2 system from your LFS. JBJ and Milwaukee are the two names that I see most often when it comes to recommended regulator and accessories. You can also build your own or buy a custom build Regulator. There have been several recent threads lately from people making the switch to Pressurized CO2 which have a lot of information that would be beneficial for you. Here's just a couple that I found browsing through the recent threads.

Pressurized CO2 Questions
Making the Switch to Pressurized

First off you'll need to decide how automated you want your system to be.
Manual - Leave it on 24/7 (saves on setup cost, but will need to refill CO2 cylindar more frequently)
Semi Automated - Use with selonoid and timer to turn off at night (slightly more expensive, but extends how long the CO2 will last)
Automated - Use with selonoid and PH controller to maintain set CO2 level (most expensive, most control over CO2 levels, extends how long the CO2 will last)

If you want to be able to inject CO2 into multiple tanks this could affect your decision on the above. To using a single presurized setup on multiple tanks you would need a manifold with enough ports to supply each tank.

You'll probably want to purchase your CO2 cylinder locally from the same place that you plan on getting it refilled. Common sizes are 5lbs, 10lbs, 20lbs. The larger tanks will obviously last longer between refills and are often more cost effective to refill. Get the largest one that you can easily conceal in your setup. Make sure to include the height that the regulator will add to the cylinder when determining which one will fit best.

 

[An t-iasg]

I bought this package a few weeks ago:
http://www.co2-canisters.com/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d32.html

(scroll down to Combo 1)
I've only had it running for about a week. It's a great system for a first-time buyer. The tubing and bubble fluid are included.

Your links go to a thermometer I would get a solenoid. This piece will turn your cylinder off and on, either through the pH meter (turns on when the pH in the aquarium is higher than your set value) or with the lights (turns on when your lights are on). It's another thing to plug in, but it turns the CO2 off and on for you.

I picked this Milwaukee system since a lot of people on here have one, and I would have a lot of help if needed. I don't know about the Red Sea system. I saw an ad for it in a magazine. I think if you're going to spend the money for this type of system, get a Milwaukee, JBJ, or other brand that others are familiar with and also a company that has good customer support.

Browse the website I linked and take some time to look at the components. It may seem like a lot to consider at first, but all the components that you need are all there.

 

[Purrbox]

I actually took a little bit more time looking at your links. Both of those setups by RedSea are for a paintball cylinder. Unless you already own a paintball cylinder I'd recommend going with a regulator meant for a standard cylindar. Larger cylinder will mean less frequent and less expensive refills.

The difference between the two is that the Deluxe model has a selanoid which allows you to go either the semi or fully automated route.

 

[rkilling1]

Pressurized is byfar the easiest way to go. It WILL save you money in the long run and save you some headaches to.

If you are a DIY kinda guy/gal you can get all the parts locally and build the regulator yourself.

Purrbox's link to going pressurized helps a lot. Rex sells some really nice setups. May want to check him out also.

http://www.rexgrigg.com/sale.html

There are some nice 'all-in-one' setups on the market as well, but since I have mine going to multiple tanks they would of ended up costed me to much to modify then to just build my own. (think of future plans of your 29 and 150 gal tanks)

 

[Fishyfanatic]

My husband is a paint baller and he can get me a 7 lb canister for about $30 and filled for free. I don't know how much a regular CO2 canister runs so I didn't even think about comparing prices. I'll look into it though.

The 55 is the community tank and the only one that will be planted. The Africans (adults in 150 and fry in 29) like to rip the plants apart.

It looks like I will be going with the pressurized CO2. James said he would buy it for me for Christmas but I could use it early. YAY! lol I'm really trying to absorb as much info as I can but it is all foreign to me. Similar to when I first came to AA and members were talking weird. You know, spouting off words like "cycling", "liquid reagent test kit", and " beneficial bacteria". Feel like a total newbie.

I take it that my little AP Master Test Kit is not going to suffice any longer?

 

[Purrbox]

If the refills are free too, then I would say that you've got a heck of a deal going. Might want to see if you can find someone that's actually used those regulators to make sure they work okay, but otherwise it's probably the best deal in your situation.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

He called the paintball store that he normally buys from last night. He said that he was setting up a CO2 system on his aquarium and wanted to know if the guy had any used CO2 tanks. The guy that he was talking to also has pressurized CO2 and said that he uses the same tanks. That was the biggest thing, finding the right CO2 unit. James uses tanks that are smaller and rated by ounces. When I told him I was looking for a 5 or 10 lb tank he had no clue what I was talking about since the ones on their guns are smaller. The only drawback? We have to drive 40 minutes to refill the tank.

That leads me to my next question. If we buy one CO2 tank, is it ok to leave the tank without the CO2 for a few hours? He would probably disconnect the tank in the morning and most likely won't be back until the afternoon. I know that CO2 effects the pH but I'm unsure on how it would effect the tank by having it unhooked for a few hours.

Is there a particular test kit that you recommend that is good for planted tanks and would cover all my bases?

 

[rkilling1]

I think we are talking apples and oranges here. The red sea system you linked to sounds perfect for you. They take the paint ball type CO2 cylinders. The 5 and 10# bottles are the kind we other guys use. If you run out, just steal one of your husbands tanks.

the only difference between the two red sea packages is the solenoid valve. IMO, I like to shut the CO2 off at night to keep my fish happy and to save CO2, but you can off gas the CO2 by running an air pump at night. some people just let it run. so I would get the solenoid valve.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

If you run out, just steal one of your husbands tanks.

lol The tank on his gun is pretty small and unfortionately he doesn't used CO2. He uses something else, forget what exactly.

So are you saying that the 7 lb tank is not what works with the Red Sea unit?

The solenoid valve turns the unit off automatically, correct? If so, I think I like that option. When adding the CO2 I should remove my airstone, right? Would there be any ill effects to the fish from doing that? I have one running right now because I am running a canister.

Again, I'm sorry if these are dumb questions with obvious answers. I read something one place and something else somewhere else. I just want to make sure I am understanding all of this right before jumping into CO2 and spending a bunch of money. Plus, I trust you all and don't want to set this unit up on the advice of the lfs. We all know how they can be. I'd probably end up with 5 wpg over the tank and 3 CO2 units.

 

[rkilling1]

the 7 pound tank? do you mean ounces(as in paint ball type)? if so then yes. that is what the red sea system uses.

"The solenoid valve turns the unit off automatically, correct?" the solenoid is an electric valve that is controlled by you. you can turn it on when you want to and off when you want to. Some people have it controlled with the use of a pH controller, but I don't think it's necessary IMO. I have mine turn on 1 hour prior to my lights turning on (allows for the CO2 to build up) and turn off when my lights turn off.

and yes you do not want to run the air stone during the day. you can set it up to run at night though. The plants will give the fish way more O2 then any air pump could.

"Plus, I trust you all and don't want to set this unit up on the advice of the lfs. We all know how they can be. I'd probably end up with 5 wpg over the tank and 3 CO2 units."

We can tell that you are not someone to just jump into something head first, nor or someone who is going to take only one persons advise. (very smart) I think you are doing just fine.

EDIT: from the red sea web site: http://www.redseafish.com/co2_pro.asp

Red Sea is pleased to introduce an exciting new CO2 system for planted aquariums.
The Pro System is a complete, efficient and user-friendly system to maintain a desired level of CO2 in planted aquariums from 10 to 125 gallons (40 to 500 Liters).

The CO2 Pro System contains the following components:
Full featured, dual gauge, safety regulator that is supplied in versions suitable for connection to standard refillable CO2 cylinders, disposable CO2 cylinders and "Paintball” CO2 cylinders (USA only).
Independent, high precision, in-line, needle valve that can be located in a convenient location on the side of the aquarium and be set to stable flow rates as low as 4 bubbles per minute.
Highly efficient CO2 Reactor 500 that includes an adjustable flow water pump and can dissolve over 180 bubbles of CO2 per min
Bubble Counter with integrated check valve
Real time CO2 indicator
Real time CO2 indicator

 

[Fishyfanatic]

No, I mean 7 lbs, not 7 ounces. The paintball store sells tanks in ounces and lbs. But the ounce containers are the ones that my husband uses for his gun. I take it that I should be using the ounce container?

I definitely don't want to just jump in heads first. Before that light strip touches my hoods I want to have all the components for the CO2 system and know exactly how it works. That way I'm not two weeks into it battling algae and trying to fix it.

 

[MarkP]

lol The tank on his gun is pretty small and unfortionately he doesn't used CO2. He uses something else, forget what exactly.

So are you saying that the 7 lb tank is not what works with the Red Sea unit?

I used to run a paintball field, and some of this seems a bit confusing to me. He probably runs Compressed Air on his marker- His tank won't work.

I've never heard of a 7 pound Co2 tank.

A Co2 tank is mearsured by how much Co2 it holds, not how much it wieghs- A 5 pound tank holds 5 pounds of Co2, and wieghs considerably more then 5 pounds. Total wieght is the weight of the tank itself plus 5 pounds of Co2.

A normal Co2 tank for a paintball marker is mearsured in ounces. Now, it may very well be that a paintball cylinder weighs 7 pounds, tank and Co2 included, although that would be a rather large Co2 cyclinder for a paintball marker.

Is this helping, or am I just muddling it more? A 7 pound Co2 tank would be 7 pounds heavier full then empty, not a total weight of 7 pounds. And would not generally be used on a normal paintball marker.

However, if it's a normal tank that you can just screw into a paintball marker, yes, it will fit the Red Sea Paintball stuff. The valve is standard. Your husband is into paintball, have him show you how to check the O-Ring.

 

[rkilling1]

LOL, again we are talking apples and oranges. If the 7 pound bottle is made for a paintball gun then it may work, but that I can not help with. I have no experience with those types of bottles.

 

[rkilling1]

would it be fair to say that if you got the red sea system that your husband would know what type of tank it would need?

EDIT: Mark, how much CO2 does a normal Paintball CO2 tank hold as compared to a 5# tank? any idea?

 

[MarkP]

would it be fair to say that if you got the red sea system that your husband would know what type of tank it would need?

EDIT: Mark, how much CO2 does a normal Paintball CO2 tank hold as compared to a 5# tank? any idea?

Yeah.

A 20 Ounce Paintball Co2 Tank holds 20 ounces of Co2. That's 1.25 pounds, and is a common size.

Some paintball tanks, generally used with remotes (pressure line that runs from your marker to a tank strapped on your back) may be 32 or 44 ounce. Can't recall seeing many bigger then that. Thats 2 to 2.75 pounds.

A 5# tank holds 5 Pounds of Co2.

A 50 pound tank holds 50 pounds of Co2, and weighs over 100.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Is this helping, or am I just muddling it more?

It's pretty much exactly what I said earlier. I wasn't referring to the actual weight of the entire thing. My husband had never heard of a 5 lb CO2 tank either until he called the paint ball store where he frequents. I realize that the normal cylinder is measured in ounces, that's why I said that he had never heard of them being measured in lbs, only ounces. The owner knew exactly what he was talking about when he said it was for an aquarium. He has a tank that holds 7 lbs of CO2 for sale and said that he frequently sells them for aquariums. I didn't say that the entire unit weighed 7 lbs. I know there is a weight difference. James pretty much said that I should tell him what I need and he will get it. I'm setting this up on my own. He's just my source of free CO2 refills and cheap CO2 tanks.

And yes, it is pressurized air that he uses. It's not the same thing as CO2. I thought it was pressurized air but I didn't want to say it wrong.

 

[MarkP]

Is this helping, or am I just muddling it more?

It's pretty much exactly what I said earlier. I wasn't referring to the actual weight of the entire thing. My husband had never heard of a 5 lb CO2 tank either until he called the paint ball store where he frequents. I realize that the normal cylinder is measured in ounces, that's why I said that he had never heard of them being measured in lbs, only ounces. The owner knew exactly what he was talking about when he said it was for an aquarium. He has a tank that holds 7 lbs of CO2 for sale and said that he frequently sells them for aquariums. I didn't say that the entire unit weighed 7 lbs. I know there is a weight difference. James pretty much said that I should tell him what I need and he will get it. I'm setting this up on my own. He's just my source of free CO2 refills and cheap CO2 tanks.

And yes, it is pressurized air that he uses. It's not the same thing as CO2. I thought it was pressurized air but I didn't want to say it wrong.

Which still leaves me confused- What the heck would a Paintball Store use a 7 lb Co2 tank for? And what kind of fitting is on it?

That tank would be way too heavy to connect to a paintball marker. And not really big enough to use as the stores fill station... Do they use it as maybe a personal refill station?

If so, you may want to double check the connector on it. A quick by any paintball fan will do, just look to see if it has an O-Ring like all paintball tanks do. If it has that O-Ring, you want a Paintball Red Sea Regulator. If it doesn't, yo don't.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I don't think it is used for paintball guns. He called up there and asked what size CO2 units they had and the guy was giving him the ounces. Then he mentioned that it was for an aquarium and the guy said, Oh, you'll want the 7 lb unit that I have in back. That's why my husband was so confused. He said "No, I think you mean ounces." Nope, POUNDS. haha

He's going up there this weekend for a new strappy thing (can you tell I am SOOO in the know about Paintball gear?) and I'll have him check it out.

How long does a CO2 unit last? For example, if I were to get the 7 lb unit, roughly what is the average amount of time that would last? The guy said that he has a customer who comes in about once every 4 weeks for a fill-up on a 7 lb but he wasn't sure if it was for just one tank or if it was shared between multiples. I just want to get a rough idea if it will be a bi-weekly type thing or once every 2 months.

 

[rkilling1]

on a 55 gal tank running only during the day and medium to heavly planted. I would say 6-8 months for a 7 pound tank.