Red coloured plants

[Delapool]

I've picked up some plants with red leaves (heck at least the fish will get variety to eat) and wondered if red plants need more or less light / ferts compared to green coloured plants?

 

[Coyne]

For sure they need more iron than green plants, and they seem to have better color the brighter the light. On my Rotala Magenta, the upper leaves are... well, magenta. Where as the lower leaves are more of a purpley-red.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Do you know the species? Any pics of this new red plant of yours, if you don't know the species.

 

[Fishperson]

Here is some info I posted earlier on a different thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Just to explain things a bit better:

To create lots of red coloring you need to provide:

a) lots of light, basically an excess amount
b) lots of phosphate and iron, almost an excess amount
c) not quite enough of nitrate or co2

When this occurs the plant uses phosphate and iron to turn red, so as to block out the red part of the light spectrum and thus receiving less light. This is necessary because photosynthesis occurs like an assembly line, which is regulated by light amount. More light = faster photosynthesis, but when there isn't enough nutrients or co2 then certain plants, through evolution, have developed the aforementioned way to turn red (using phosphate and iron) to block out red light and photosynthesize slower, so as not to have deficiencies.

Lights that are partially red, such as the finnex planted+ or certain settings on the satellite current led+ or ecoxotic e series are better for turning plants red because the plants sort of sense (I assume) that the light has high concentrations of red and thus turning red would have a larger impact with those lights than it would with, say, a whitish, 10,000k light.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I like that last paragraph, I believe that red plants develop the anthocyanins to absorb the blue and green wavelengths, while reflecting the red -- hence why they appear red to our eyes. In the absence of full spectrum, particularly around red 660nm, the plants have no need to turn red because they're just sucking up the blue and some green.

Depending on the species of plant, there are some red flora that can get red under moderate light (and even fewer with low light). AR mini, luwigia sp. Red, Red Tiger Lotus, etc. are some examples.

I find that a good comprehensive fertilizer regimen, CO2, and light help. Dosing iron has always been a debatable subject in its role of red coloration. Even so I'm not fully convinced on either side of the fence, I still dose it.

Here's an interesting article.

https://sites.google.com/site/skepticalverdure/home/the-myths-of-red-plants

 

[Delapool]

Do you know the species? Any pics of this new red plant of yours, if you don't know the species.

Hey, thanks for the replies. Still reading through but the plant name is 'alternanthera sessilis' on the label. I do have a pot left over so will get a pic.

 

[Fishperson]

I like that last paragraph, I believe that red plants develop the anthocyanins to absorb the blue and green wavelengths, while reflecting the red -- hence why they appear red to our eyes. In the absence of full spectrum, particularly around red 660nm, the plants have no need to turn red because they're just sucking up the blue and some green.

Depending on the species of plant, there are some red flora that can get red under moderate light (and even fewer with low light). AR mini, luwigia sp. Red, Red Tiger Lotus, etc. are some examples.

I find that a good comprehensive fertilizer regimen, CO2, and light help. Dosing iron has always been a debatable subject in its role of red coloration. Even so I'm not fully convinced on either side of the fence, I still dose it.

Here's an interesting article.

https://sites.google.com/site/skepticalverdure/home/the-myths-of-red-plants

Wow. I wrote that post based on a thread I read on TPT but totally misunderstood it. That article clears it up well. I do feel like the author was making it seem as if red coloration is entirely too difficult to encourage and its best to not even try. I don't know if thats necessarily a good thing to encourage, but they sound qualified enough to make that statement so maybe so.

 

[Delapool]

. Picture

 

[Delapool]

That's an interesting article - my lights are led and about 3.5wpg (don't have par) but the tank is 2.5ft deep. Liquid co2 dosing and dry ferts plus API leaf zone plus DIY substrate ferts. Don't dose phosphates as tank runs at 3 to 5ppm phosphate. Iron tests to date read 0. Nitrates 20 to 30ppm. Ph 7.6. Tank 4ft long.

The lights are stronger in the blues. Would this suit red plants better as there is less red light than in a more balanced light? The lfs where I bought the LEDs basically said they are not quite suited to FW as most people that will spend more money on LEDs are SW. The lights are adjustable but to date haven't attempted to fiddle with them much.

 

[clarkm]

What is the brand of lighting? Need more details on the light.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

What is the brand of lighting? Need more details on the light.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

This is all I have on them,


http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/phosphate-high-313123.html

Edit - it is post 5 of the thread with the pics. I looked at the spectrum plants like and thought it was low in reds a while back and that seemed to make sense with what the lfs said but know nothing about lighting really.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Holy cow.. that's reef lighting. But I'd keep the reds up full, reduce blue a lot, bump up the warm whites and greens, and keep the cool whites moderate. wait, the individual channels are controllable right?

 

[Delapool]

Holy cow.. that's reef lighting. But I'd keep the reds up full, reduce blue a lot, bump up the warm whites and greens, and keep the cool whites moderate. wait, the individual channels are controllable right?

Darn it, live and learn - I only went in there to look to.

Sorry, I should of given more detail. I really need to create a thread on this (misadventures in planted tanks or something). There are two channels only (last pic). There is a white channel (white and reds) and a blue channel (lots of blues). I've put the whites on full and blues at 2/3? Any thoughts appreciated to try.

Could a light high in blues cause plant bleaching? Like is it possible to have too much light or is it always element deficiency? I've noticed some plants on new growth under the lights get white, translucent tips. I ran an experiment this week where I had turned down the lights and the plant seemed greener but also realised is been putting more substrate ferts under that one.

I'm intending to replace a 35w 4ft strip led at the front with a proper BML led but haven't got around to ordering that yet. Was going to try getting one more in the reds for that one but still a plant light? I'm intending to stick with liquid carbon for now so didn't want to go too high on light power if it does harm the plants. On wpg I thought I was at medium light but unfortunately there is no one around here that had a par meter.

 

[Delapool]

Picture of plant-water sprite I think. They were shifted from a small tank a week ago where they were much greener (same ferts but better light and in a pot with soil). They don't seem to have liked the move..

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Watts per gallon is irrelevant for the most part in terms of LED. White "daylight" LEDs (your cool whites and warm ones) are actually blue chips with a yellow phosphor to emit white light, but under a spectral graph they're already disproportionately blue heavy in spectrum. Adding more blue to the mix is inviting algae and will fade red plants, and wash out colors. Is there a controller option for that light?

BML Dutch spectrum is perfect for red plants. It's all hard to say without a PAR meter for that LED panel you have. There's a guy named Hoppy on TPT (the planted tank forum) the sells DIY PAR meters for 50$. Should get you a good estimation in where you're at in your lighting. Reef lighting is typically very strong. So I'd be a little weary of running them too long, too blue, and too high. Glut dosing helps, but IMO, pressurized CO2 would be better.

 

[Delapool]

Watts per gallon is irrelevant for the most part in terms of LED. White "daylight" LEDs (your cool whites and warm ones) are actually blue chips with a yellow phosphor to emit white light, but under a spectral graph they're already disproportionately blue heavy in spectrum. Adding more blue to the mix is inviting algae and will fade red plants, and wash out colors. Is there a controller option for that light?

BML Dutch spectrum is perfect for red plants. It's all hard to say without a PAR meter for that LED panel you have. There's a guy named Hoppy on TPT (the planted tank forum) the sells DIY PAR meters for 50$. Should get you a good estimation in where you're at in your lighting. Reef lighting is typically very strong. So I'd be a little weary of running them too long, too blue, and too high. Glut dosing helps, but IMO, pressurized CO2 would be better.

Thanks for this - the Dutch BML was the one I was thinking of. I'll chat with the lfs next time I'm over there on controllers - at the moment there is just two dimmers. Hoping to have some funds in September, thanks for the tip on PAR meters. Stuff grows, I mean it's not all bad - I had foxtail growing well in pots for a bit before taking a short cut on my annual bba control by using "algae fix" and killing it off accidentally (thankfully the glut is sorting that out now that I'm at 1ml per 5 gals).