Replacing my substrate w/ Eco-Complete

[dapellegrini]

OK, the time has come and I now feel like I have the mental bandwidth to think through this issue. My 72g bow-front needs better substrate and I am planning on purchasing a bunch of Eco-Complete sometime soon. So:

1) How much should I get? I was thinking 7-8 bags... Does that sound right?

2) When I do work up the courage to do the complete tear down, what should I do to insure that I don't kill my fish? I will be removing a substrate that has a mature bacteria colony (7+ years) with one that has absolutely none...

I would like to try and keep the tank water by siphoning out most of it before I disrupt the substrate and them put it back in when I have the eco-complete in there... Problem is, I think I need a 55g barrel, and I don't have one of those laying around... Anyone else pulled this off?

TIA

 

[Zezmo]

IMO, ECO complete is great if you empty the tank and start from scratch.

Get a large HOB filter, and fill it with floss etc. (in addition to your existing filter)

After tear down, and re-setup. Put all new fresh water, and add the HOB, and your old filter with its dirty media intact. That along with plants etc, and you should be fine as far as preserving your biological filter. You can also mix some of the dirty mulm from your filter into the ECO as you add it.

 

[dapellegrini]

Hey Zezmo, you have a 72g, right? How many 20lb sacks of Eco-Complete do you think I will need?

Just so I am sure I understand what you are saying, it should be ok to add completely new water along with Eco-complete? Just keep the filters dirty and add the plants and the fish should be fine for immediate transfer?

Also, am I assuming that the HOB would be to help clean the water since my Canisters would be left dirty? I have two XP3's running on this tank... wouldn't that be enough, even left dirty?

 

[dapellegrini]

Reading up more on Eco-Complete, I didn't realize that it supposedly comes buffered and full of bacteria... Perfect!

I am still intrigued with the HOB idea though. Eco-Complete doesn't make the water cloudy does it?

 

[Zezmo]

By suggesting a HOB, I was offering a very conservative way to go. I was unaware you have 2x XP3's. I am sure those are fine.

In my 72 i used ADA soil, which is sold by the liter (9 liter bags). If you know how many liters (vollume) a Bag of ECO is. THen the calculation is easy. FWIW, I used 5 9-liter bags for my 72 to get and average 3-4" deep substrate.

If your tank is say 300liters, and is 20" deep. That is 15 liters per inch. 3" deep would take 45 liters of substrate, or 5 bags of ADA soil.

 

[dapellegrini]

Thanks for the clarification Zezmo.

I can't find anywhere that gives me the liter equivalent, but I did read that others have problems with Eco Complete - stating it is difficult to anchor down foreground plants in it. Suggestion there was to add a black sand as well... So I guess my question is growing a bit here.... for some reason I was thinking that Eco-complete would be the end all substrate, but I am reading that perhaps it is not all that.

Why do you use ADA Soil?

Also, I am interested in others opinions and experience with Eco-complete and other substrates... The "if I had it to do over" kind of thoughts...

 

[JustOneMore20]

I also recommend taking the fish and old substrate in and starting from scratch. The bacteria will remain in your filters, as well as any bacteria that is in the Eco. I switched my substrate out in my 55g planted about 4 months ago and had no problems with a mini-cycle afterwards. You can put the fish in a couple 5 gallon buckets.

I've heard it is about 1 bag of Eco per 10 gallons. This is very true IMO because I used 5 bags in my 55g and it gave me about 2 inches of substrate in the front and 3 inches in the back. For a 72g you could get either 7 or 8 bags. IMO 7 would do, but if you want more than 2-3 inches, then get 8.

 

[Zezmo]

I use ECO complete in my Nanotank (8 gal tank, 2gal "sump"). I used 1.5 bags in the 8 gallon tank area.
1 bag per 10 is probably adequate. Although, if you want a nice thick substrate, then maybe like 1.5 bags for every 10 gal would be nice. I do find that a deeper substrate is easier to plant in. So maybe buy 9-11 bags for your 72. It does not hurt to have some extra. Also, if you plan any terraces, then those deeper areas need more.

Personally I have few complaints about ECO complete. It has worked as advertised. I think you do need tweezers to do any planting in it without making a mess. Not sure how it would be "difficult" to plant foregrounds in it. Maybe if you did not use tweezers it would be. As far as "forground" plants, I have tried all of these in that tank: Cryptocoryne parva, Ranlisma rostratum, Echinodorus tennelus "red", Dwarf Hyrdocotle sp., Dwarf Hairgrass, Elantine triandra, Hygrophila sp "Araguaia", Blyxa alternifolia, Blyxa japonica, and Cryptocoyne pygmaea. Most plants seem to form nice root systems in ECO.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Also, I am interested in others opinions and experience with Eco-complete and other substrates... The "if I had it to do over" kind of thoughts...

I'll just add that I agree with Zezmo, no complaints on the Eco. I actually love it. My plants love it and I have definitely noticed my Crypts exploding with growth in the Eco. They look so healthy now as opposed to before when they were in regular gravel. I have had no problems with BBA (I've heard it can cause outbreaks) and my pH has not been affected. I use some oversized tweezers to do my planting and it is very easy. I haven't had problems planting plants...but mine are mostly stems. If I had to do it over, I would have used Eco in all my planted tanks and stayed away from regular gravel.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I have a 75G, and it took 8 bags. How long is your tank, and how wide is in from front to back in the center?

 

[dapellegrini]

It is 48" long. 13" deep on the ends to 18" deep in middle at the widest point in the bow-front. 23" tall, of which 22" would probably take water/substrate.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I would say 8 bags will be plenty. This will give you some extra depth in the back for plants like swords, where it has a larger root structure.

I originally got 10 bags, and had 2 left over after doing my 75G. I used these for my 29G. 2 bags is plenty for a 29G.

 

[newfound77951]

If I had to do it over, I would have used Eco in all my planted tanks and stayed away from regular gravel.

me too! I have it in my 55, 6 bags I think, and that gave me a nice 3" thick bed that has proved to be very adequate. All my plants grow roots like mad in the stuff, and I joke sometimes that the rocks will grow roots too! I got cheap and didn't use it for my 5 and 2 gallon nanos and I wish i had, it just makes things easier.

I do have some difficulty getting small foreground plants to stay down but I think that is more my fishes' fault than the eco....I have 3 cories, 2 SAEs, 2 loaches and 2 BN plecos that inspect every square inch of my gravel with great care for any food tidbits that the rainbows might have missed.

 

[steve.hes]

I did this a couple of months ago.

Had 3 5 gallon buckets, added a large plastic 'tub' type container (from Lowes for <$10) which I guess was 40 gallons or so.

Drained off water in the the 3 buckets, then 1/3 filled the tub. I positioned the buckets around the tub to keep the sides stable as it started to bow out (they're not very sturdy)
Removed plants/rocks/wood and put them in the tub.
Caught fish and put in the tub, added an airstone to the tub.
Drained out enough water to 3/4 fill the tub, the rest I dumped down the sink.

Remove substrate leaving the last few bits, the last 1/4 inch or so of water and all the 'gunk' from the old substrate. Dumped some laterite and all my eco.

Then put it all back together.
I used half the water from the tub and the 3 buckets, put the plants/etc. back and then topped off with fresh tap water. Let the filters run for a couple of hours, then put the fishes back in.

I started around mid morning and finished up around 10:00 pm, it'll take a long time!! I was doing a 44G tank.

No fish loss or noticable plant damage.

Good luck!!

 

[JustOneMore20]

I started around mid morning and finished up around 10:00 pm, it'll take a long time!! I was doing a 44G tank.

Its definitely an all day task. I think it took me like 8 hours to change out my 55g.

 

[dapellegrini]

Thanks for all of the feedback!

Does anyone use ECO mixed with sand? Where can I pick up some of these famed tweezers to plant my foreground?

 

[Purrbox]

I personally like the needle nose tweezers that are for sale next to the fingernail clippers and such. They are especially helpful for the tiny foreground plants. I've also got a planting kit that has a long pair of tweezers, leveler, and scissors in a nice case. Don't remember where I ordered it from anymore and no one seems to carry it anymore anyway. Most of the online shops do have the pruning scissors and long planting tweezers available though.

 

[mr funktastic]

i have eco mixed with sand in my 10 gal tank. i like it. it makes it easier to plant becasue u dont get as much of the larger rocks of the eco settling on top. although i have never had a problem planting in strait eco. HERE is my trimmings tank i use it in. u can see the sand i used from my cichlid tank to mix with it.

 

[JustOneMore20]

The Good Doctors (F&S) sell some "aquatic forceps". I have the 10 inch curved ones and it is great for planting all sorts of plants. It helps me reach behind my piece of DW to plant my stems. They also sell some small 6 inch ones which would be better for foreground. If you are going to be planting really small foreground plants, the store bought tweezers, next to the nail stuff would be best for that since they are really small.

 

[dapellegrini]

mr funktastic - what kind of sand is that in your Cichlid tank? I like the more "earthy" look of it mixed in with your ECO... I have to imagine it would eventually all settle to the bottom and you would still have the issue of the larger pieces of ECO hanging around the top though.