Sand as substrate for plants?

[CorallineAlgae]

Leaf Zone is useful but not as complete as Seachem Flourish comprehensive. I think the second plant looks like Java Fern. If it's leaves are coming out of a rhizome then that's what it is. The rhizome must not be buried under the gravel or the plant will die. Ferns grow best if you tie them loosely to a rock or wood. They don't like gravel.

 

[jmay33]

Leaf Zone is useful but not as complete as Seachem Flourish comprehensive. I think the second plant looks like Java Fern. If it's leaves are coming out of a rhizome then that's what it is. The rhizome must not be buried under the gravel or the plant will die. Ferns grow best if you tie them loosely to a rock or wood. They don't like gravel.

Alright. I'll see about switching to Seachems. If I attach it to wood will it grow to the wood?

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Now that I get a good look at it... it looks like a bulb plant. Does it have a bulb at the root end?

 

[jmay33]

Now that I get a good look at it... it looks like a bulb plant. Does it have a bulb at the root end?

I don't know. I will take a picture of it's root system when I am home.

 

[marsh]

Oh my goodness. Really? I've been trying to choose between Eco complete and black sand. I like the look of the sand but I've heard eco-complete is the best for plants and that was my main concern. Do you have pictures of yours? I hadn't thought of layering them! I am using seachem root tabs as of yesterday. I attached a pic of the plant food I got. I don't have any CO2 yet, but in the next couple of days I will.

Edit: My snails are pretty well fed, I think. Thank you, wouldn't have thought about it.

I technically can show you a pic of what NOT to do, as I am correcting my own mistake of buying light gravel before researching planted tanks and then trying to cap black Eco complete with my original substrate.

It looked nice at first but each time I added plants the colors mixed more and more. I just bought black sand and a huge plant pack from AZ gardens so I can heavily plant my whole tank, finalize the layout, and in a few months put a cap of black sand over the whole floorbed to facilitate poop removal without having to gravel vac (which is a no-no if you use root tabs!)

Again I'm learning most things by trial and error, but so far loving my tanks and plants and my fishy!

 

[jmay33]

I technically can show you a pic of what NOT to do, as I am correcting my own mistake of buying light gravel before researching planted tanks and then trying to cap black Eco complete with my original substrate.

It looked nice at first but each time I added plants the colors mixed more and more. I just bought black sand and a huge plant pack from AZ gardens so I can heavily plant my whole tank, finalize the layout, and in a few months put a cap of black sand over the whole floorbed to facilitate poop removal without having to gravel vac (which is a no-no if you use root tabs!)

Again I'm learning most things by trial and error, but so far loving my tanks and plants and my fishy!

Learning from experience is the best way not to forget a lesson!

That's awesome! How do you clean the sand without a vacuum? I'm really wanting to do sand, need to do some research first though.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

How do you clean the sand without a vacuum? I'm really wanting to do sand, need to do some research first though.

In a planted tank you don't clean the gravel much if at all. If you push a gravel vac into the sand in a planted tank you'll harm the roots or even sever them and the broken rotting roots will make the gravel far dirtier than leaving the substrate undisturbed. It's fine to lightly touch the sand where there are no plants but many people, like myself, have ground cover plants that don't let us even touch the gravel. These systems are far better of with only very light cleaning. The filter traps most of the gunk and what's left in the tank becomes a kind of soil for the plants.

Now, after about four of five years like this it's pretty common to have too much organic debris in the substrate. At this point it's not a bad idea to either take out all the plants, wash out the sand completely, or replace the substrate for something new, then rescape and replant the tank. After years of keeping a tank a certain way it's a nice way to refresh the look of the tank anyway. Some people even do this every couple of years.

 

[marsh]

Learning from experience is the best way not to forget a lesson!

That's awesome! How do you clean the sand without a vacuum? I'm really wanting to do sand, need to do some research first though.

Well the previous poster has it right on, but my tank is only 20% planted (most of the gravel bed is visible from above). I had 3 snails that popped so much I asked for advice because I hated seeing it in my tank. My Betta could never poop enough to be visible in a 29 gallon honestly.

Long story short: the trick is to twirl the end if a vacuum wand in circles just above the surface of the floor. All the gunk gets caught in this whirlwind swirly and floats up just enough for the vacuum to suction it out. This apparently works much better over sand than gravel because gravel provides deep crevices for poop to settle in, while sand provides a smoother surface.

My poor snails starved, but I'm going to switch to sand after I plant about 20-30 plants I ordered to get to a 75% planted tank I estimate so I can add snails and neon tetras and still remove the visible poop if I feel OCD.

I never attached a photo, in the process of cycling this tank while my fish hangs out in a holding tank, waiting for my plants... Wouldn't it be nice with black and not the calico? For your consideration:

 

[jmay33]

In a planted tank you don't clean the gravel much if at all. If you push a gravel vac into the sand in a planted tank you'll harm the roots or even sever them and the broken rotting roots will make the gravel far dirtier than leaving the substrate undisturbed. It's fine to lightly touch the sand where there are no plants but many people, like myself, have ground cover plants that don't let us even touch the gravel. These systems are far better of with only very light cleaning. The filter traps most of the gunk and what's left in the tank becomes a kind of soil for the plants.

Now, after about four of five years like this it's pretty common to have too much organic debris in the substrate. At this point it's not a bad idea to either take out all the plants, wash out the sand completely, or replace the substrate for something new, then rescape and replant the tank. After years of keeping a tank a certain way it's a nice way to refresh the look of the tank anyway. Some people even do this every couple of years.

Great! Thank you. Can you leave eco-complete(?) in the tank that long?Once I am successful in my 10 gallon I will plant my 30 gallon. I want to give my fish a more natural environment to live in.

Well the previous poster has it right on, but my tank is only 20% planted (most of the gravel bed is visible from above). I had 3 snails that popped so much I asked for advice because I hated seeing it in my tank. My Betta could never poop enough to be visible in a 29 gallon honestly.

Long story short: the trick is to twirl the end if a vacuum wand in circles just above the surface of the floor. All the gunk gets caught in this whirlwind swirly and floats up just enough for the vacuum to suction it out. This apparently works much better over sand than gravel because gravel provides deep crevices for poop to settle in, while sand provides a smoother surface.

My poor snails starved, but I'm going to switch to sand after I plant about 20-30 plants I ordered to get to a 75% planted tank I estimate so I can add snails and neon tetras and still remove the visible poop if I feel OCD.

I never attached a photo, in the process of cycling this tank while my fish hangs out in a holding tank, waiting for my plants... Wouldn't it be nice with black and not the calico? For your consideration:

Black would look really slick! I'm still am skeptical of taking care of sand for some reason. Lol. I'm scared it's going to get dirty and out of control before I can do something about it.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Sand is easy to clean. It's small size makes it harder for detritus to penetrate. Eco Complete is kinda designed to hold on to detritus so the plant roots can feed off of it. Both of these substrates can go for years without any problems at all as long as you keep the filter clean and do regular water changes. No tank will survive poor maintenance for years.

 

[jmay33]

Sand is easy to clean. It's small size makes it harder for detritus to penetrate. Eco Complete is kinda designed to hold on to detritus so the plant roots can feed off of it. Both of these substrates can go for years without any problems at all as long as you keep the filter clean and do regular water changes. No tank will survive poor maintenance for years.

If I'm doing a water change without cleaning the substrate, does it clean just as well? If I use Eco complete do I literally just change the water?

 

[marsh]

If I'm doing a water change without cleaning the substrate, does it clean just as well? If I use Eco complete do I literally just change the water?

This is the point when variables such as your fish population's bioload, your tank's filtration capacity and water parameters all come into play before you know the answer. In the case of a heavily planted(read: FULL of plants) the above statement is true.

 

[jmay33]

This is the point when variables such as your fish population's bioload, your tank's filtration capacity and water parameters all come into play before you know the answer. In the case of a heavily planted(read: FULL of plants) the above statement is true.

Great. Thank you!!!

 

[CorallineAlgae]

This is the point when variables such as your fish population's bioload, your tank's filtration capacity and water parameters all come into play before you know the answer. In the case of a heavily planted(read: FULL of plants) the above statement is true.

Exactly right. If you have a large area without plant roots in the sub then it's fine to clean the gravel there. You just don't want to destroy plant roots or suck out valuable root tabs. That's the main issue. In a tank like mine where plants are everywhere and there isn't a spot to really touch the substrate without being on top of a plant you just have to use the swirl method mentioned earlier if possible. I can't really even do that because it pulls up my dwarf baby tears. it all depends on the plants.

 

[jmay33]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I really appreciate the information.

I added a wisteria and a moneywort to my tank tonight. Any suggestions? Again, I don't know much, so anything about where my plants are, how I have the tank set up, any suggestions on pretty much everything are more than welcome!

I have 2 of the seachem root tabs on the left side and 1 on the other. There are bulbs planted on the right side, as well. Do I need to add more root tabs? Also, I put the API leaf zone in there on Friday. Because I put more plants, do I need to put more leaf zone in there?

 

[CorallineAlgae]

The bulb plants like root tabs so you could add one under them unless one is already there. The moneywort and wisteria use liquid ferts. Leaf Zone is nice but it isn't as complete as Flourish. I'd add a bit of Flourish comprehensive before adding more Leaf Zone. Using one on Fridays and the other on Tuesdays may be a good idea. You shouldn't need much until your plants start to really fill out.

For a random suggestion, if you like the look of backgrounds you may want to consider putting one on the back of the tank. Some people go black and others like blue. The ones in pet shops are two sided with one color on each side. Many people like to slope their substrate lower in the front and deeper in the back or even some from side to side. If you check out my build thread you'll see what I mean.

 

[jmay33]

I have seen your tank before! I love it. You inspired me to add a school of neons to my up and coming 55g community tank. trying to decide whether to do it planted or not. I'm going to see how this 10 gallon turns out, first.

I will pick up some flourish tomorrow and start it for sure. thank you! The bulb plants have one. Should I add another for the wisteria or the moneywort that I added? Is it possible to over do it?

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Thank you! My tank is just over a month old since I set everything up new. Probably time for an update.
You probably don't need to add more root tabs unless your bulbs are spread out wide. If you see that your other plants start to root you can add a tab but they'll be fine with liquid ferts.

 

[jmay33]

Thank you! My tank is just over a month old since I set everything up new. Probably time for an update.
You probably don't need to add more root tabs unless your bulbs are spread out wide. If you see that your other plants start to root you can add a tab but they'll be fine with liquid ferts.

I believe it probably is time for an update. thank you!!! I will keep up with this thread and post how my plants are doing!