Screw In CFL's and other questions

[MarkP]

So, after working through several ideas for inexpensive lighting upgrades to let me grow higher-light plants, I think I've a solution.

A ten gallon tank. This gives me a place I can try out new things without harming the main 45 gallon tank, and for much less expense and work.

My first question, since I think it's reasonable to guess that CFL's have been tried by someone before- My 10 gallon from a garage sale came with a light fixture fitted for 2 30watt incandescents. As my experiance with CFL's previously suggested, I was able to plug 2 75-watt equilivent CFL's (Which draws the equilivent of a 20 watt incandescent) into the fixture and they work fine.

Now, it appears to me that this could be wa-aaay too much light for a 10 gallon- I'm looking at the equilivent of 150 watts of incandescent, or 15 WPG. But... the WPG rule was developed for Flourscent lights, so perhaps the correct figure I should be using is what they actually draw, 20 watts. If it helps, the lights I am testing with (not the ones I will actually use) are rated at 1200 lumens each.

Now, I beleive the second method (Rating each bulb as 20watts) is the correct one- Can anyone else offer me a sanity check on this? Or any tips and tricks from previous CFL experiances?

My second question- I intend to use this as a QT/Hospital tank in addition to a high(ish) light planted tank. While I shouldn't actually need much biological filtration- The heavily planted tank should take care of much of that- I do plan to keep some MTS and shrimp in the tank full time. The shrimp may well become a breeding population with excess being transferred to the main tank as live food, and also provide some ammonia to keep whatever bacteria I may desire alive.

But, anyway, the point is that I beleive that most parasites/etc that affect fish will not affect the invertrabrates I plan on keeping in this tank- Specifically, that most common one, Ich. Am I correct, or am I misremembering something?

Oh, and since this is my first real post, although I've lurked quite a while, hello everyone.

[Purrbox]

You want to use the actual wattage of the bulbs not their equivalant wattage to incadescents. Something else to keep in mind that smaller tanks require more light to achieve the desired light levels. If the bulbs that you use are spirals you will also loose some of the light due to restrike. You might want to visit Wizard~Of~Ozz's pages for an estimate of how much light you want. His new theory seems to work much better on smaller tanks than the straight WPG and I've found it fairly accurate when compared to the plant behavior in my tanks.

[JustOneMore20]

Welcome to the site!

I picked up a 2-pack of 20w screw in Compact fluorescent bulbs at Walmart for my 10g tank. That will give me 4wpg...which is great for heavily plants. I also plan to supplement DIY CO2. Make sure the bulbs say sunlight though...I made the mistake of getting soft white CF bulbs and they were not the right kind. Look for Sunlight. I can't remember the brand though.

They make higher watt bulbs, if you want more light. I think they have 25w and 30w bulbs (CF). If you go that high, you would have to add CO2 though.

[maxwell1295]

I think the brand name is "Sunlight". I have 2-15w bulbs in both of my 10gal tanks.

[czcz]

Welcome to AA

Your plan to use it without biological filtration is good, provided plant mass and uptake is higher than bioload (very easy with high light, fast growers, and sane stocking). However, it is impractical to use an invert tank as a QT, since 1) Many medications kill inverts, 2) Inverts do not adapt well to high temperatures, and 3) Fish can easily wipe out a thriving shrimp breeding population.

In regards to the ammonia comment, I may misunderstand, but 1) Adding ammonia to the invert tank for bacteria will kill inverts or 2) While personally I have no issue breeding animals for food, I think there's better sources for ammonia than our adorable FW shrimp.

Good luck.

[Musket]

Welcome MarkP
I do not have any different answers than those already posted.
My experience is:
I got a CF for my 5g tank, a 10w from Walmart for under $5. I believe it is "Lights of America" brand. It said for aquariums, I do not remember if it said sunlight but I think it did. They may have bigger wattages too. 2 months later after slowing adjusting my fish to the light, I have algae. My snail can't keep up with it. I bought an oto but have not seen him in 24hrs? Or the shrimp...
Let us know what you figure out after deciphering what to do thru all the tips.

Just wanted to welcome you to the show!

[MarkP]

I'm not looking at adding ammonia to the tank from a bottle or anything, I'm looking for a way to keep the QT Tank cycled. The ammonia would be the naturally produced stuff- I know snails provide it, I beleive shrimp do as well, but wouldn't be incredibly surprised to find out they have a different biological process.

I do plan on keeping the 10 gallon fairly well planted, so maybe I am worrying for nothing, but the absolute last thing I want is to put any more stress on any fish I may want to move into there.

I absolutely love algae-eating critters- I just love the idea that when algae does happen, it'll get eaten and the nutrients will be placed back into the water column via fish poop. While I may be wrong, I beleive it gives me a little more leeway in terms of exact balance of ferts- If something gets a little out of whack, and I get some algae growth, it'll get eaten, but hopefully slowly enough that I'll notice and can alter the balance. The reverse side of this is I need to feed the algae eaters, especially when I have little/no algae growth. So that boils down to it going a bit against the grain to setup a planted tank- Especially my first high(er) light tank- without algae eaters.

And it still leaves me with the question- How do you keep a QT/Hospital tank cycled?

A small amount of clarification- The shrimp would not be primarly as food. I like shrimp, unfortunately, so do my wife's angels. The overpopulation of shrimp could be transferred to the main tank, where they may have more luck then my last batch of Amano shrimp. I'd prefer it if they survived there (As I mentioned, I love algae eaters), but if they are going to get eaten, I'd prefer to lose glass shrimp I've bred myself then Amano shrimp I've paid good money for. Glass Shrimp where chosen because, while still not easy to breed, they appear easier then Amano.

[Alshain]

The WPG rule is really an educated guess as to what you should be using. Its a lot like the "inches of fish per gallon of water" rule. Really, if you have the amount of lumens available to you, that is what you need to be going by, not watts. The reason the WPG rule exists is because the lumens is not always available and usually, lumens and watts are related to each other but different based on the type of bulb (Flourecent, CF, Incandecent). Watts are variable based on bulb type, while lumens are always constant. Also keep in mind the temperature of the bulb. The only screw in CF lights I've seen at walmart are GE which have something like 3800K, not near enough for any plant. They may have others but I haven't seen them locally.

Originally Posted by MarkP

And it still leaves me with the question- How do you keep a QT/Hospital tank cycled?

I put a filter insert from my QT tank's filter under the filter of my main tank. In the event the QT tank needs to be used, I take it out and put it in the QT tank, insta-cycle! I NEVER put the filter media back, instead after setting up the QT tank I immediately put a new piece of filter media for the QT tank in the main tank filter to begin again. When I break down the QT tank I throw out the filter.

Of course this takes advance preperation, if you have a sick fish right this minute then theres not a lot you can do but you could take water from the main tank for the QT tank and it will work a little bit. If you have a large tank then this is easy because taking 10 gallons out of a 40 gallon tank is only a 25% water change for the main tank. Then just do regualr water changes in the QT tank using main tank water to keep the ammonia down. Be carefull not to double dip whatever you are transferring the water with. You don't want to spread infection back to the main tank.

Originally Posted by MarkP

My second question- I intend to use this as a QT/Hospital tank in addition to a high(ish) light planted tank.

I won't say you can't do this, I will say that you shouldnt. A QT tank should be set up with the bare minimum. A filter, a heater, the tank itself and a few ornaments for the stressed fish to hide in. Thats it. The reason being, these can be cleaned with bleach/vinager/boiling water/whatever. Live plants can't be cleaned like that, and substrate can but its difficult. A true QT tank will be easy to set up and easy to break down and should not be used for other purposes. In fact, you don't even need light for a QT tank, light is for you to see and your plants to grow, the fish could care less and in fact most fish are less stressed in the dark (or in room lighting only). A QT tank serves 3 purposes and only 3 purposes and should be cleaned between these uses.

1. Sick Fish
2. New Fish (unknown health)
3. Pregnant Fish and Fry/Egg Isolation - many will say this should be in another seperate tank in case you have fry and then another fish gets sick. But, lets face it. next thing you know your going to have 6 QT tanks and your going to get overkill. You have to know when precautions meet being unreasonable.

[Purrbox]

Another option is to keep some sponge filters on hand. These can be kept in a bucket that you feed some Ammonia to each day or hidden in a back corner of tank (obviously not a CO2 injected tank). Then when need for QT, Hospital, or new tank just move to the new tank and you're set.

[czcz]

You seem interested in plants, so how about a 10gallon planted tank instead of a QT? Any algae eater that fits in a 10g -- nerite snails, "pest snails," otos, shrimp, and so on -- are easy to feed. Another 10g as a QT when/if needed is cheap, and easy to keep in a closet or something when not needed.