Submerged to Emersed, what is needed?

[fish_4_all]

I now have some plants I plan to grow from their submerged form to emersed. I know the plants will do it but what do they need?

I know once they break the surface that they will get more CO2 from the air and that lighting requirements go down drastically but what happens to the bottoms of the plants? Do I need to provide the same light to the bottoms to keep the plant growing or will the bottoms be fine? I know I need to dose still because the nutrients will be taken up by the roots and emersed growth but should I dose more because of the increased demands of both the emersed and submerged? Should I expect the plant to revert to a complete emersed form and only have roots in the water with the stems slowly rotting away?

The plants will be Riccia, Ludwigia Repens, Bacopa Australis and another Ludwigia species that I now do not know what species it is. Thought it was Repens but since I received some true repens it is obviously not repens, . Also, does anyone have more suggestions as to which other plants could work well growing from submerged to emersed?

 

[Purrbox]

This is highly dependant on the plant. Some will go from submersed to emersed with little to no fuss, while others will shed all of their submersed leaves in favor of the emersed growth.

 

[fish_4_all]

Well the L. repens is growing so awesome already. I hope to have enough to stock my tank background and start a submerged to emersed grow out tank in about a month.

The new shoots are less than a week old and some are already an inch long. With these growth rates I hope to have a small forest in a short time.

Special thanks to An t-iasg for sending me some L. repens with the Bacopa Australis especially since I thought I had it already but turned out to be Water Primrose instead of the true primrose. Thanks again Deb.

 

[An t-iasg]

You're welcome! Both the Ludwigia repens and the Bacopa australis will turn into a small forest I have to keep mine short enough for a 5 gallon tank, but if I want more, I replant a bottom piece and in a week or less, it's already growing a new top shoot or two and lots of side shoots.

 

[Peyton]

I know that at least L. repens will keep it's submersed growth along with the emersed. What kind of lighting are you using?

 

[fish_4_all]

I have an 80 watt shop light over the top of 2, 10 gallon tanks but the setup for the emersed growth with have a LOT more. It is going to be 4 20-25 watt screw in compact flourescents or it is going to be 4 15 watt flourescents side by side in different K ratings.

All of this going about 10-12 inch above a 10 gallon tank or maybe a tank I make myself. Possibly shorter and wider than a regular 10 or maybe a custom made tank that is right around 30x20x14deep or there abouts.

Any suggestions would be very helpful to keep the plants going both emersed and submerged. I would even side light the tank if needed. The emersed growth will be on egg crate and I will try to keep it to the side to allow for the submerged to get as much light as possible.

 

[Peyton]

L. repens may be a little disappointing to you as it isn't much to look at emersed. At least mine isn't. I was hoping for nice upright growth but instead it seems to be growing parallel to the waters' surface.

You could easily just put it in a plastic shoebox with some some soil and fill it maybe 3/4 full of water. Then put the repens stem so the top is just at the waters surface. Then just set it outside and let the sun do the rest. Maybe check the water level every other day to make sure it stays moist.

 

[Purrbox]

Generally you need less light with an emersed setup than a submersed setup. The reason is that with an emersed setup the light isn't being filtered, etc by the water. With a partially submersed setup like yours, you may need a bit more than a straight emersed setup, but since the light will be going through less water it will still be less than with a submersed setup.

 

[fish_4_all]

I wish it was as easy as just putting it outside for sun but in this area there isn't likely to be enough sun for another couple months. How much light do you think I will need for an indoor setup lighitng a dome through clean vinyl? I could easily set up any amount of light really with what I have.

The place I plant to put the emersed/submerged growth out tank is under a shelf I made out of some metal rails that have really large slots in them. I will put the lights on the top of the rail and have the tank(s) set up below that. What I am hoping for is something similar to THIS from the Repens but anything close would work perfect. This will give a good surface area for lots of possible flowers. A shallow dish is a good idea as it gives a faster transition from submerged to emersed.

I think you have convinced me to do a shallower setup just because of the ease of maintenance and the faster transition as well as the cost of the setup.

As far as this emersed setup goes, do I need to worry about circulation? I thought about using the tank so I could put a small powerhead or something similar but will I need it?

I think I will try the shallower containers simply because I need to learn how to grow them emersed first, then I will see if I can keep a submerged /emersed setup going without the plants lowing their lower leaves with some kind of side lighting if needed.

Please let me know how much light you think I need. I can always get more if needed or the plants seem to want it. I think it will be 3 containers, probably about the size of a plastic shoe box side by side.

One other thing. I want the plants to be able to go right into the egg crate and start to grow emersed as soon as they break the surface. Any suggestions on the best way to do this or the best container to try and do this with as far as least amount of substrate and securing the egg crate?

 

[Purrbox]

Currently I'm growing Crypts, Anubias, and HC in an emersed setup with just the light of a sunny window that's good for growing African Violets. Everything is growing well although somewhat slowly. I would think that the 80 watt shop light should be sufficient, possibly a second one if you don't get good growth from the first. Try to make sure that the reflector directs most of the light down instead of into the room.

Circulation would certainly improve growth but isn't strictly necessary. The only water movement my setup gets is when I remove it from the shelf to do some work with it.

When I started out I had three shoebox containers inside of a sweaterbox container. This worked just fine, but I quickly found that it was limiting since I wanted to be able to tell which crypts were which. You may find that switching to grow pots gives you more flexibility if you want to ensure that you can distinguish the plants from eachother.

I'd say that you wouldn't need anymore than 2-3" of substrate at most. For something like HC you'd only need maybe a 1/2" of substrate. For the most part the requirements will be very similar to when they're in an aquarium as far as substrate depth.

No idea as far as the eggcrate goes.