Substrate question

[bmg213]

I purchased a product by Red Sea called Flora Base:
http://www.redseafish.com/Product.asp?Dir=y&catID=97&subID=33&proID=115
I purchased it because I have a small corner of my tank dedicated to live plants, and they didnt seem to be growing well. Ever since moving to this substrate from the traditional gravel I had, the Biowheel filter cartridge has been covered with a brown (same color as the substrate) sludge-like residue. As a result, the cartridge is not trapping the small particles of filth that it used to, and as a result the tank is not as clean as it once was. Not sure if I am doing something wrong, this is my first time using this type of substrate. If it matters, here is some info about the tank:

*37 gal.
*4 clown loaches, 1 bala shark, 1 common pleco, 2 angels, 1 Asian upside down catfish, and 1 cory.
*large driftwood column
*medium sized slate cave
*mix of live plants including mellon sword, anubius, and Italian vallisneria

 

[Allivymar]

Hiya bmg213 and welcome to Aquariumadvice

Its hard to say without seeing it to be sure what it is, but a mature biowheel and the cartridge will normally be covered in a brown sludgy film; its the the biofilm containing the nitrifying bacteria. However, it may be covered in the substrate; again without seeing it its hard to know. How long has the tank been cycled?

If the biowheel is mature, you should be able to change the filter cartridge without spiking ammonia/nitrites. You might wish to as it does sound as if the cartridge itself is blocked up. You could rinse it in tank water, but I'm guessing the fine particles from the Flora Base will not be easy to remove.

 

[bmg213]

Thanks Allivymar

I will try to take a picture of it soon. I dont think its the biofilm though. It started to accumulate almost immediately after changing the substrate, and it looks almost exactly like the new substrate. Also, the film is not on the biowheel, it is on the cartridge, and also inside the intake tube of the filtering system. The best way to explain it is that the filter cartridge looks like its covered in mud from the substrate, no actual substrate particles. The tank has been cycled for about 12 weeks now.

Thanks again!

 

[bmg213]

Here are the pictures:

 

[Allivymar]

Yeah, you're right. Now that I can see it, I agree its most likely the substrate getting into everything. I've never use FloraBase; my planted tank has laterite in it, and I rinsed it gently before adding to the tank. Plus, I started the tank with it and didn't add it later (I think that may be part of the issue, as it easily got into the water column since the tank wasn't empty like mine was).

If the tank is competely cycled, and you haven't yet, I'd suggest changing the filter media. I can see that stuff clogs up the small filter pores easily, and it prob doesn't all come out when its rinsed. Better to start fresh to ensure the tank is being filtered properly.

Btw, lovely tank set-up; that hunk of driftwood is awesome. And you'll have to get me some more pics of your koi and black angel; I LURVE angels*grin*

 

[bmg213]

Thanks again. I did change the filter media, and scrubbed out the intake on the filter. Nothing I do seems to be working. I have to rinse the media and scrub the tube every week. I wrote to the company that manufactures the flora base, but I dont have high hopes of hearing back. Does the laterite you use generate any type of muddy substance?

Thanks for the compliment on my tank, the driftwood is one of my favorite parts of the tank...not counting the fish themselves. Ill get some more pics of the black angel...funny story about that guy. He managed to sneak into the hose when I was cleaning the tank one day...but as you can see he is doing fine after his little journey up the tube and out ...tough little sucker.

 

[bmg213]

Curious if anyone else has any advice? I contacted the company who manufactured the substrate and they were also at a loss to explain whats happening. Last week I broke down the filter and scrubbed out all of the mud-like substance and changed the filter media, but its just collecting again. Any help would be great, I really frustrated with this. :?

 

[madasafish]

I had this same problem with SeaChem's "Fluorite Red." I don't know EcoComplete as well... the blurb says it's a "volcanic ash-based soil" which could mean anything... loam, sandy loam, clay, etc. in terms of particle size. I'm guessing you're seeing a lot of small clay particles building up, just as I did with Fluorite Red. Keep on washing this out in small buckets of aquarium water. It took about 3 weeks to go away for me...

I see you've been pretty patient--12 days or so. I'd advise some active gravel vaccing, and frequent water changes. That's what I did, and eventually... The other option is to place another substrate over the Eco Complete. A sand or gravel should work, and this will prevent the clay from finding its way into the filter. Allivymar does this.

HTH

 

[bmg213]

Thanks madasafish...

If I do that I think Im better off with sand because of the clown loaches and cory that I have so they can forage around in it easily. The one question I have though is if I put sand on top of the substrate, how much do you suggest I use? I am assuming I should take out some of the current substrate before adding anything else. One last thing, will the sand get airborne (or actually waterborne) easily with the activities of my pleco and upside down asian catfish and just end up in the filter?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[madasafish]

Well, 1-2 inches or so of fertilized substrate is fine, and you can place another inch or two of sand on top of that (most planted, multi-layered tanks have 3+ inches of substrate). Use your best judgment, as you'll want your plant roots to be able to reach the ferts easily *and* you'll want to be able to stir the sand (if it's very fine) without mixing the 2 substrates too much. Personally, I'm fine with just a fert substrate and plants going into it (I have Seachem's "Fluorite" in one tank and "Fluorite Red" in another). If your Flora-Base substrate looks very soupy/fine grained, I think a coarse-grained sand (fine-grained causes anoxic pockets of methane and other gases) or gravel would be perfect to keep it down.

 

[bmg213]

Thanks again! Ill probably be purchasing something along the lines of your suggestion this week.

 

[madasafish]

No problem. Glad I could help.

Just as a side note...

I really like the Fluorite I bought! It is not hugely different in color from fluorite red (has same red clay gravel in it) and does not cloud up the water *nearly* as much as the red. In addition to this, the particles in the standard fluorite are slightly larger (fewer broken down smaller sand/silt sized particles). As a result, the water in my 55 is not cloudy at all (I did wash out the fluorite thoroughly before placing it in, as I did with the fluorite red). So, for future ref, fluorite seems the better choice of the two!

 

[BrianNY]

I just used the Eco-Complete a few weeks ago. No rinsing at all, and the water was crystal clear right from the start. Amazing stuff!!! The plants (what few I have), seem to be doing fantastic too.

 

[bmg213]

Just an update...I covered the florabase with about 1/4" to 1/2" of gravel (couldnt find any sand that wasnt fine grain) and its been a few days with no sign of the brown sludge beginning to accumulate.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out...my fish thank you too for helping to provide a much cleaner home for them.

 

[Allivymar]

Yay!

Always pleased to hear good news; have some kudos to celebrate *grin*