Tap water vs RO water

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I would just call the places you want to purchase from. I actually saved over $140 doing that because I was about to buy stuff I didnt really need. Like a second membrane and a DI stage and inline TDS. ..there's lots you may not need. Seems like youre on top of it tho.


Chloramine doesnt break down like chlorine so it was important to me to make sure i had a block dedicated to that and I drink my RO water as well, not just my shrimp so I cant dump prime into my water.

Not to hijack but I have a question about the pond pump- is that to help fill your tanks? I need a solution for my 65gal as its too high to siphon water into.

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I plan on storing all my RO or RODI water in a Rubbermaid Brute 44g equipped with a float valve for the RODI system. To make the water change is as smooth as possible I will use a submersible heater to heat the water and treat with Equilibrium for a while then kick on the pond pump for bucket-less water changes. The one I am looking at is $20, but I am sure you can get cheaper pending tank size. I also am going to use the Aqueon water changer to make priming and removal of the water easier at start. At least that is the plan, but I think I have run through the process enough that I covered all the bases along with the advice from the forum community.

I will talk with the LFS on the RO RODI systems as well however I may lean to the RO system. Thanks for the info on your experience!
 
Scarthell, I bought my first pond pump for $10 at Harbor Freight (the store, but it appears to be on line)

200 GPH Submersible Fountain Pump

You have to be careful however of head height. Pond pumps are meant to pump quite a bit of water, but usually not high. The above worked OK for me going from 5G buckets into a tank where the top was about 4' high. A bit slow but that wasn't bad as it did not disturb the substrate.

I then got another tank with the top quite high (a bit over 6') and -- zero. It just would not pump that high at all, it peaked out about 5' or so.

My second was this one:

http://www.amazon.com/PP40006-Submersible-Aquaponics-Hydroponics-Fountain/dp/B006M6MU90

Notice it gives a breakdown of pumping speed --221gph @ 6', 132 @ 7', but then stops (almost) as 3gph at 8'. In other words they don't taper off, they just suddenly stop as they reach their max.

So when you look for these, ignore (mostly) the base gph, and only buy one where you can make sure the head height (or lift) is enough for you, probably plus 2' or so. There are some that only lift about 3' for example, and the less expensive ones often are among them.

Katas: Perhaps reading too much into what you didn't mention: Consider adding at least a little bit of KH buffer if using RODI, and maybe measure dKH if using RO only. If you are trying for low ph just a few pinches of baking soda (are you going for low ph?). Even if you want really low PH, a tiny bit of baking soda is beneficial for health of the beneficial bacteria as well as some resistance to ph swings. I target dKH=4 but that's pretty high for some people. In 40 gallons each dKH takes 1 teaspoon of baking soda, approximately.
 
Oh... if you happen to be a boater and have old bilge pumps lying around, just hook up to 12V and you have a great aquarium transfer pump. They usually have a bit more head height and move more water, plus are designed to sit flat and pump all but the last fraction of an inch out. All computer power supplies (if you want to cannibalize) and many "bricks" from old electronic toys are 12V and you only need maybe 1-4A depending on bilge pump. I actually use one of these for my largest tank to speed things up.
 
The PH isn't a major concern on with the RO/RODI system. I wanted to clean my chemical laden city water as much as I can. Eliminating any variables for the shrimp and or algae blooms. I know I will still have algae however I would like to eliminate as many factors as possible.
 
The PH isn't a major concern on with the RO/RODI system. I wanted to clean my chemical laden city water as much as I can. Eliminating any variables for the shrimp and or algae blooms. I know I will still have algae however I would like to eliminate as many factors as possible.

Yes, it does that. As someone once said to me:

The good thing about RODI water is you are in complete control of the contents.

The bad thing about RODI water is you are in complete control of the contents.

:blink:

That means you control the PH. At the simplest (in a non-co2-injected environment) that means the PH is going to be determined mostly by how much KH buffer you add to the water. As it comes out of the RODI system it has none, it's PH can vary all over the place depending on temperature and aeration, and vary even more based on what comes off decaying food (ph down), rocks (often ph up), driftwood (usually down), plants (up with lights on, down with off).

Adding some KH tends to stabalize this; how much you add tends to actually set the ph. Mine with dKH=4 usually ends up in the high 7's for example.

I don't know the right answer for shrimp, but I think the generally accepted answer is that no buffer added is not good. Read up a bit and see if there's a recommendation for your flavor of shrimp. Lacking anything else, my recommendation would be somewhere around 2 as that mitigates the wild swings of PH while not driving you too high on ph, you'll end up in the low-mid 7's.

If in doubt, get a bucket and experiment a bit. You can use Seachem Alkaline Buffer if you like, but it's essentially baking soda -- the stuff you likely have in your kitchen that's almost free. Mix up a few buckets, let them aerate for a while with different amounts. In a 5G bucket 1/8th of a teaspoon is 1dKH of carbonate hardness, so just a quarter teaspoon should et you to dKH=2.
 
Haha I am well stocked on baking soda ahead of the schedule. However the prime PH I am looking for is 6.2-6.6 for the shrimp. I will, as you noted, have to play mad scientist and play with aeration and mixes ahead of time. As always thank you for your perspectives, huge help!
 
Yeah think I may change my plans for the time being and go with Red Cherry Shrimp and Amanos only. PH range of 6.8-7.0 instead.
 
I have a 90gal. I use RO/DI for peace of mind. I add Kent's RO right and Super Buffer dkh into a 42gal garbage can with heater and circulation pump. I use the EI method. BUT I'm currently trying to go 2 weeks between WC.


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I have enjoyed reading this thread and am learning a lot. I am using only RO water for water changes and then correcting with ro right. My ph is staying right at 7.0.
 
mom2reds: Sorry, I didn't parse that?

Though it did remind me of something. When using RODI water (or mixing it with tap), you want to use pure, non-mineralized RO or RODI water to top off the tank for evaporation.

This is actually one advantage of RODI water. With regular tap water, what happens is evaporation removes water but not stuff dissolved in it, so over time those contents actually accumulate since what you add back has minerals in it. Even water changes will not exactly fix this. Let's say the concentration went from (making something up) 10ppm to 20ppm due evaporation, you change the water 50% -- you now have 15ppm not back to the beginning of 10ppm.

Water changes takes care of this mostly -- you get a bit more minerals than you wanted, but not enough to harm. The more time between water changes (with tap water) the more this swings when you do the water change.

But with RODI water you can avoid this entirely by adding top off water that has no minerals in it. Makes more a more stable environment.

Not a big deal but also saves trouble -- no need to mix top off water. I keep a few gallon jugs sitting around which I use for mixing fertilizers, and topping off. I also uses them in this ugly fountain my wife has out front -- this avoids those calcium stains you often get on such things.
 
Dont use equilibrium its mostly potassium. I just use caso4 and mgso4.


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Dont use equilibrium its mostly potassium. I just use caso4 and mgso4.

Equilibrium is one of only two Seachem's I have not replaced yet with dry DIY dosing.

Do you have a recommended formula for using alternatives for it? And a comment on why the potassium is bad? (I actually does potassium after what I think was a deficiency; I go long times between WC's, so I add a small amount of potassium weekly but not on a week with a WC).
 
I dont remember the math off the top
of my head but if i added tried to get around 5-6GH it would add 50ppm of potassium or so. Yes i have a formula but its on my computer which im not in front of!


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On the topic of RO/DI systems. When do all of you prefer to change out your Sediment/Carbon/DI Resin? BRS recommends every 6 months for Sediment/Carbon/DI Resin, and 2-3 years for RO membrane. Some people wait till the pressure goes down or until filters look evidently dirty (assuming you have the see through kind).

I've been running my system for about 10 months now, without changing anything. My TDS is at 0, no evident filth, and pressure is the same as when I first bought it. DI resin is mostly yellow, but still some blue towards the bottom (I have the BRS color changing Resin).

Please let me know what you think.
 
It's a darn good question.

Assuming you are using chlorinated tap water, the key aspect is that the carbon blocks be able to remove essentially all chlorine as chlorine damages RO membranes.

The problem is there's no readily available way to tell, as the levels at which it may become a problem is far below most readily available chlorine test kits (e.g. pool kits) as they are aimed at a very high level.

I've thought about trying to buy some kit for very low level testing, but never pursued it, and just swapped out at 6 months as others have suggested.

The carbon blocks are mostly rated by a number of gallons, but that is not very helpful either as the gallons processed includes waste, flush as well as product, and even if you estimate (say 4 or 5 to 1) I never keep close enough track of product to use that.

It's a good question.

The membrane I'll swap when it's output (after some initial high TDS flow) won't keep it under about 20. The DI media I swap when I start getting non-zero TDS out (I do not use color changing media, I've heard that the non-color-indicating lasts a bit longer).

But the carbon blocks -- I wish I had a better answer.
 
Thanks for the reply. I see. That's a pretty good system. At least a great way of making sure that your RO membrane stays in good shape. It's still puzzles me though, my Carbon block is rated at 15,000. I make about 75 gallons of RO water every month. If I include that and add in the wastewater, say a 5:1 ratio, that's about 450 gallons a month. In 10 months that's 4500 gallons of water. I know there's many other variables like how the quality of your tapwater is and city or rural water. But as mentioned before, I see no evident filth, no drop in pressure, and no change in TDS going in or coming out of RO/DI.

Not trying to argue your methods, but you can see how there's an opportunity to be as efficient as possible here. I hope more people can jump into this. I've been in the hobby for about two years now. Still consider myself a rookie.


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Scarthell, I bought my first pond pump for $10 at Harbor Freight (the store, but it appears to be on line)

200 GPH Submersible Fountain Pump

You have to be careful however of head height. Pond pumps are meant to pump quite a bit of water, but usually not high. The above worked OK for me going from 5G buckets into a tank where the top was about 4' high. A bit slow but that wasn't bad as it did not disturb the substrate.

I then got another tank with the top quite high (a bit over 6') and -- zero. It just would not pump that high at all, it peaked out about 5' or so.

My second was this one:

http://www.amazon.com/PP40006-Submersible-Aquaponics-Hydroponics-Fountain/dp/B006M6MU90

Notice it gives a breakdown of pumping speed --221gph @ 6', 132 @ 7', but then stops (almost) as 3gph at 8'. In other words they don't taper off, they just suddenly stop as they reach their max.

So when you look for these, ignore (mostly) the base gph, and only buy one where you can make sure the head height (or lift) is enough for you, probably plus 2' or so. There are some that only lift about 3' for example, and the less expensive ones often are among them.

Katas: Perhaps reading too much into what you didn't mention: Consider adding at least a little bit of KH buffer if using RODI, and maybe measure dKH if using RO only. If you are trying for low ph just a few pinches of baking soda (are you going for low ph?). Even if you want really low PH, a tiny bit of baking soda is beneficial for health of the beneficial bacteria as well as some resistance to ph swings. I target dKH=4 but that's pretty high for some people. In 40 gallons each dKH takes 1 teaspoon of baking soda, approximately.


All of this is new to me and very helpful thanks! (y)
 
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